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https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=287780

VBulletin 4.x - 5... Time to anty up again?
by morrow
13 Sep 2012 03:12

How long with vBulletin 4.x be supported. I think the latest version is 4.2? That's what I'm using anyway. So my understanding with the whole 4.x upgrade being so expensive was that it would be good for years to come. All updates until the next full version (5.x) would be included free of charge. My concern is that we're only on version 4.2 and now we're being asked to dish out more cash for v5 before versions 4.3,4.4,4.5,4.6,4.7, etc..

So tell me... Will newer version of vBulletin 4 be released or will they be a thing of the past?

In the past we had incremental updates at a moderate cost. For example.. From version 2 - 3. Then came 4 and it wasn't a small price to pay, instead it was something around $250.00.

I haven't read anything about phasing out version 4.x but I just have to ask... Will it be phased anytime soon or will you still be providing releases 4.3, 4.4, 4.9, etc...

Lynne 13 Sep 2012 03:19

This is really a question best asked on vbulletin.com which deals with licenses.

4.2 is most likely the end-of-the-line for the 4.x series. It has been since Dec 2009 that it was released, so almost 2.5 years

Also, nobody will force you to upgrade to 5.x. 4.2 is a nice stable version of the software.

BirdOPrey5 13 Sep 2012 11:56

Also there was never a history of every minor number ever being released (4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4...)

vBulletin 3 went from 3.0 directly to 3.5 and stopped at 3.8 for example.

morrow 13 Sep 2012 12:57

Ok... I think I see the general concensus about this product:
https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/show...negative/page4

thunderclap82 13 Sep 2012 15:39

Yeah... comments are pretty scathing.

BSMedia 13 Sep 2012 18:55

Yeah, it's not looking good from early reviews.

However, it is a beta product and probably will be for a while longer.

Don't forget that this is the same software and company that took until vBulletin 4.1/4.2 to make that usable. so it might be a while

gremrock 13 Sep 2012 18:59

stick with x4 lets keep going

Big Al 13 Sep 2012 22:45

Obviously there has been a lot of work done to bring out V5 and it is in the beta stage.

However the comments so far are very bad. my concern is that as it has received such bad reports how secure is it?

Vbulletin does not enjoy a good reputation for dealing with the security of its clients, so how secure is the new V.5
In what seems like a rush to launch it, has sufficient thought gone into making it secure?

ZombieAndy 14 Sep 2012 18:55

I Dont see why their charging people for a beta product?

Surely you would only buy software with the intention of using it on a live site and i for one would never use beta software on a live site.

God knows what IB are thinking.

Oh wait.. $$$

BirdOPrey5 14 Sep 2012 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZombieAndy (Post 2365431)
I Dont see why their charging people for a beta product?

Surely you would only buy software with the intention of using it on a live site and i for one would never use beta software on a live site.

God knows what IB are thinking.

Oh wait.. $$$

You're buying a license for VB5 but you get full access to run the VB 4 Publishing Suite (or any other earlier version.)

So think of it like you're buying VB4 now, with a free upgrade to VB5 whenever it is ready.

Also the price of the VB5 license is less than the price of the VB4 suite also used to be.

dougdirac 14 Sep 2012 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5 (Post 2365462)
You're buying a license for VB5 but you get full access to run the VB 4 Publishing Suite (or any other earlier version.)

So think of it like you're buying VB4 now, with a free upgrade to VB5 whenever it is ready.

Also the price of the VB5 license is less than the price of the VB4 suite also used to be.

This is an excellent point and I think $250 for vB4 is quite a bargain. But it leaves people who already have vB4 in a tough position. You shouldn't have to pay 200 bucks to beta test software. Sure, you're entitled to updates down the line, but that's quite a leap of faith. You should only have to pay when they give you a version that ready to go live.

--------------- Added 14 Sep 2012 at 22:06 ---------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynne (Post 2364996)
4.2 is most likely the end-of-the-line for the 4.x series.

That's news to me. Many on vBulletin.com claim that development on 4.x will continue.

LouiseWilson 14 Sep 2012 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougdirac (Post 2365482)
This is an excellent point and I think $250 for vB4 is quite a bargain. But it leaves people who already have vB4 in a tough position. You shouldn't have to pay 200 bucks to beta test software. Sure, you're entitled to updates down the line, but that's quite a leap of faith. You should only have to pay when they give you a version that ready to go live.

--------------- Added 14 Sep 2012 at 22:06 ---------------


That's news to me. Many on vBulletin.com claim that development on 4.x will continue.

I could not of said any better myself Infact I was typing something along the lines of this, but I deleted what I put from Fear from being banned from speaking my mind.
From a VB user from the VB 3 series upwards I'm finding that looking to improve my community with VB a no go atm.

BirdOPrey5 14 Sep 2012 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougdirac (Post 2365482)
This is an excellent point and I think $250 for vB4 is quite a bargain. But it leaves people who already have vB4 in a tough position. You shouldn't have to pay 200 bucks to beta test software. Sure, you're entitled to updates down the line, but that's quite a leap of faith. You should only have to pay when they give you a version that ready to go live.

No one HAS to pay at all. If they want VB5 beta they pay for it, if they don't, that's fine too.

AcheronAI 14 Sep 2012 23:25

I am in a bad spot as well, I just bought vb4 5 months ago and just now started getting it going after other things came first.

The only bright spot is this, we know how slow vBulletin is about making anything stable, even more so since they sold out. My hope is by the time vB 5 is actually viable (if ever) I will just toss up a donate thing on the site lol.

It is a shame though , vBulletin was so much easier when paid by the year. Now they act like we are getting this very great service by not paying per year but instead will toss out a new product more often then microsoft.

Lynne 15 Sep 2012 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynne (Post 2364996)
4.2 is most likely the end-of-the-line for the 4.x series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougdirac (Post 2365482)
That's news to me. Many on vBulletin.com claim that development on 4.x will continue.

I simply meant that I do not believe there will be a 4.3, or larger, series. They will continue with the 4.2 series but that will be it.

dougdirac 15 Sep 2012 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5 (Post 2365489)
No one HAS to pay at all. If they want VB5 beta they pay for it, if they don't, that's fine too.

Sure. :) That goes without saying, but perhaps you missed my point? Of course, no one HAS to buy anything. But if you want to test out this beta/unfinished product (to help plan for the future or whatever), currently you have to pay about 200 bucks. I don't think that's reasonable, or even good business. Just my opinion, of course.

Would make more sense to me if they gave you a limited test-only license for say a $50 deposit which could be credited towards a full version when it becomes available. Just a meet-us-part-way idea. They "clarified" the 30 days ticket support to something more reasonable, so you never know.

I'm a physics guy, and most of my coding has always been LabView or Matlab. I don't really know this HTML or CSS stuff. When I took over as technical admin of our site and went about upgrading to vB 4.2, I was amazed how much work was involved just to make the site look reasonable. All the little bugs and things broken that needed to be fixed. All the plug-ins needed to get some better functionality, etc. So I've spent a lot of time learning this stuff and making little tweaks etc to make things better. This community and the support of folks like BOP5 have been a great help.

With vB5 coming out, I have to decide if it's worth all my efforts continuing to tweak and improve a vB4 site. Perhaps I should stop till we go to vB5 since all my efforts will be undone by an upgrade. You can see how having some sense of what it's like to run my site on vB5 would be a great help in deciding where to focus my efforts.

--------------- Added 15 Sep 2012 at 00:52 ---------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouiseWilson (Post 2365487)
I could not of said any better myself Infact I was typing something along the lines of this, but I deleted what I put from Fear from being banned from speaking my mind.
From a VB user from the VB 3 series upwards I'm finding that looking to improve my community with VB a no go atm.

You shouldn't be afraid to express your opinion, just as long as you're basically on topic and not directly insulting anyone.

This whole vB5 fiasco, not even so much about how they released an unfinished product but mainly how existing customers are being treated, has really put a damper on my enthusiasm.

nhawk 15 Sep 2012 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougdirac (Post 2365533)
.....

Would make more sense to me if they gave you a limited test-only license for say a $50 deposit which could be credited towards a full version when it becomes available. Just a meet-us-part-way idea. They "clarified" the 30 days ticket support to something more reasonable, so you never know.

.....

vB 5 is online software so I'm sure enforcing licenses is already a chore for the IB crew. What would prevent someone with one of these 'test-only' licenses you're talking about from putting it on a live site? And what would prevent them from using that 'test-only' license indefinitely?

vB 5 is new software, so they are offering a discount to vB 4 customers if they purchase vB 5 now. Granted vB 5 is still in Beta, but it is still new software. Personally I think the discount offer is a reasonable one.

Your vB 4 license is still accessible and downloadable. So, you're not losing anything if you don't purchase vB 5. If you DO purchase vB 5, you're also gaining another vB 4 full suite license (yes, that's a full suite license, not a forum license) at a huge discount from what vB 4 cost in the past. To me it's a win-win deal.

dougdirac 15 Sep 2012 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhawk (Post 2365611)
vB 5 is online software so I'm sure enforcing licenses is already a chore for the IB crew.

I don't see how my idea appreciably changes that. People buying vB5 new are really getting a useful vB4 license and some vB5 test software. If they ran both on lives sites they also would be violating the license agreement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhawk (Post 2365611)
What would prevent someone with one of these 'test-only' licenses you're talking about from putting it on a live site?

The fact that it's incomplete and that it's admitted to be not ready for a live site. That person is already running his/her site on a valid vB4 Suite license.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhawk (Post 2365611)
And what would prevent them from using that 'test-only' license indefinitely?

See above. Also that someone is interested in using stable up-to-date software. Hopefully after testing the Beta out, the customer sees the potential of vB5 and is eager for a more complete live-ready version, for which he'd obviously have to pay to download. Anyhow, what's the purpose of an indefinite test site and that isn't live?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhawk (Post 2365611)
vB 5 is new software, so they are offering a discount to vB 4 customers if they purchase vB 5 now. Granted vB 5 is still in Beta, but it is still new software.

Are you saying that the $40 discount is only for a limited time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhawk (Post 2365611)
Personally I think the discount offer is a reasonable one.

A point of disagreement. I think the discount is so small that it makes more sense as an existing customer to buy new and transfer your existing license. But are they not allowing that any more?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhawk (Post 2365611)
Your vB 4 license is still accessible and downloadable. So, you're not losing anything if you don't purchase vB 5.

Only the planning type things I mentioned in previous posts, but alas not purchasing at this time may be the only sensible option left. When I'm ready to move on from vB4 I'll have to consider all my options. I'm really shocked how little incentive there is to stick with vB for existing customers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhawk (Post 2365611)
If you DO purchase vB 5, you're also gaining another vB 4 full suite license (yes, that's a full suite license, not a forum license) at a huge discount from what vB 4 cost in the past. To me it's a win-win deal.

What do you think that license is worth if it didn't include vB4 suite? Again, I think it's a great price for vB4. But I have no interest in running a second live site. Do you know if they're still allowing license transfers?

Weeds 15 Sep 2012 15:35

How do you mean you get another 4.x full suite license? But not if you upgrade from 4.x full suite license to 5.x you do not get another free one right? Only if you buy a new

wilford brimley 15 Sep 2012 16:05

seems like 4.2 is barely flushed out. needs more work for sure.

if support is dropped people will just pirate.

dougdirac 15 Sep 2012 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weeds (Post 2365660)
How do you mean you get another 4.x full suite license? But not if you upgrade from 4.x full suite license to 5.x you do not get another free one right? Only if you buy a new

Right. As I understand it, if you buy vB5 new, you get access to vB4 Suite since they know vB5 isn't ready. You're allowed one live site and one test installation of either. But right now, vB5 is only good for a test installation. So basically you're buying vB4 for a live site (again at a great value), and you can use either for a test installation.

If you're doing an upgrade... well you save 40 bucks (still paying ~ $200) and essentially what you get is a test version of vB5 (with the hope it will get better down the line) since you're likely already using vB4 on your live site.

I suppose if you're currently running vB3 and looking to upgrade to vB4, buying the vB5 upgrade is a good deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilford brimley (Post 2365666)
seems like 4.2 is barely flushed out. needs more work for sure.

if support is dropped people will just pirate.

Don't really follow you here. If support for what is dropped? If people need support for their software and it's not available, then they're likely to go to another software vendor.

iyama 24 Sep 2012 20:38

If i read that the coding for vb5 mods are different......................
So a vb4 user who upgrade to vb5 wil have a lot of problems. :(

Even i think that vb is missing there goal to the vb4 users.
I'm not talking about the &^% price for this group.
Buth more about the terrible demo who is displaying the new vb5.
And the talking of about a couple of months that vb5 realy wil be working.

Nothing saying that the cms is stil not compleet. :p
And the service for 30 days after vb5 wil be official.
and.......
and.........etcetera

If you tel it on vb.com, zachery wil delete negative postings from users.
So in my eyes, vb is not any more a community for there paying users!

TheSupportForum 25 Sep 2012 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by iyama (Post 2368262)
If i read that the coding for vb5 mods are different......................
So a vb4 user who upgrade to vb5 wil have a lot of problems. :(

Even i think that vb is missing there goal to the vb4 users.
I'm not talking about the &^% price for this group.
Buth more about the terrible demo who is displaying the new vb5.
And the talking of about a couple of months that vb5 realy wil be working.

Nothing saying that the cms is stil not compleet. :p
And the service for 30 days after vb5 wil be official.
and.......
and.........etcetera

If you tel it on vb.com, zachery wil delete negative postings from users.
So in my eyes, vb is not any more a community for there paying users!

your signature is offense and should be removed

any mods to deal with this person signature please

dougdirac 25 Sep 2012 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonhind (Post 2368443)
your signature is offense and should be removed

any mods to deal with this person signature please

I am not offended.

TheSupportForum 25 Sep 2012 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougdirac (Post 2368500)
I am not offended.

the against VB's signature rules
its discouraging people to buy licenses


i cant simple say in my signature don't buy this don't buy that, its a signature violation

Big Al 26 Sep 2012 00:06

A member should be allowed to offer his or her opinion as long as it is not directed towards a particular member.

After reading the reviews and opinions of others, surely a member is entitled to post their opinion, or is this forum going to be a dictatorship?

I was under the impression that this forum was FOR Vbulletin clients to openly discuss Vb mods and related issues.

Would it be a violation if someone said to BUY v5? or is it only a violation if some one says NOT to buy v5?

I am not offended either by an honest opinion.

BirdOPrey5 27 Sep 2012 12:17

The only thing you can be sure of is that the person offering advice in his signature did not do it themselves- had they managed to get their payapal transaction reversed their existing licenses would be invalidated and they wouldn't be posting as a licensed user here.

Perhaps the poster knows the advice he is giving in his signature sounds good but realizes it is bad advice.

I understand customer frustration about the bugs in VB5 Beta but many people wanted to see what vBulletin was going to be about, and now they can and they can get their opinions heard earlier than if VB5 was not released on Beta.

What I truly do not understand are people upset about the cost. VB5 Connect is cheaper than VB4 Suite used to be, AND you get access to VB4 Suite if you prefer it. With all the current discounts it is A LOT cheaper.

If you already are a VB4 license holder no one is forcing you to upgrade, you will be able to use vBulletin 4 for years without problems... You will get what you paid for out of it. This very site uses vBulletin 3.6.12 and is not alone, no one is forced to upgrade VB versions.

dougdirac 27 Sep 2012 18:03

I value your opinion, Joe, and I do agree with most of what you've said. I think the only delimma is for existing vB4 license holders that would like to test out the upgrade but have no need for a second vB4 license.

What would be the value of vB5 Beta if it didn't include the option to run vB4?

BirdOPrey5 27 Sep 2012 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougdirac (Post 2369054)
I value your opinion, Joe, and I do agree with most of what you've said. I think the only delimma is for existing vB4 license holders that would like to test out the upgrade but have no need for a second vB4 license.

What would be the value of vB5 Beta if it didn't include the option to run vB4?

If you have no desire to upgrade to VB5 immediately and you already own VB4 there is probably no reason you should run out and buy VB5. You can use the official demo to play around with the front end and eventually we'll have back end demos up again for people who want to test it as an admin. The only reason to upgrade now is to save $25- that is a business decision you need to make.

iyama 29 Sep 2012 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonhind (Post 2368509)
the against VB's signature rules
its discouraging people to buy licenses


i cant simple say in my signature don't buy this don't buy that, its a signature violation

Like i said early its my opinion and its a advice to them who already paid for vb5 but getting terrible fuc*kd about the troubles and more.

From you i don't may used it in my siggie, but you are trying to asking others to reject them to me.
what's worse? :rolleyes:

And i'm still standing behind my opinion and siggie. And even you are not changing my mind about it. You dont like my opinion and siggie? Just puth me on ignore and help some one else. :cool:

Krusty1231 30 Sep 2012 02:59

I always liked the fact I was able to downgrade when I bought my license. I think of this release as an upgrade. I save $25 for buying in advance, I get to play with it before actually putting it on my live forum.

I think getting an advance peek (even if in beta stage) and saving myself a few bucks might just be worth it for guys like me.

I see everyone has an opinion, but ultimately to buy, not buy, upgrade, don't upgrade is a choice best left to ones self.

I'm off to check it out!

iyama 03 Oct 2012 19:20

Oke with vb4 there was also a big list with bugs and updates after the beta.
And every new product has to be changed and making better and better and.......

But if i read it good and translate it in my head to my language................after the 100% first release you have only 30 days for support?

If i read it good and see now the bug list and fixes.....(and think about the new coming bugs)......and look at my 100% working and good vb4 right now.
Think that vb must give money, instead of asking, to all the owners who have also a good working site. ;)


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