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  #106  
Old 14 May 2006, 01:22
calorie calorie is offline
 
Join Date: May 2003
Coders are important, sure, and there appears to be a need for recognition above and beyond that currently provided. Perhaps coders could be involved in vBorg development, be able to open a big project release forum, have the ability to turn on/off a bug reporting system, etcetera.

However, let's not fail to recognize what the 'members' provide. Without 'members' trying and commenting on mods, the 'coders' on this forum may not have found/fixed mentioned bugs, improved interfaces, enhanced features, etcetera. Also, let us not forget 'designers' and graphics.

That said, and not to dismiss comments/suggestions on any side, IMHO there is a certain lack of communication that a rapid fire of suggestions is not going to fix. To wit, there are a few members that download mods only to post them on their sites. Why do staff allegedly do nothing?

The topic of pilfered mods has been brought up several times in the past, and is used here as an example. So, why do staff allegedly do nothing, or is it that you don't know what staff do, or why/not they do it? Same goes for vBorg development teams, as well as other things.

There seems to be an apparent divide, like an us/them attitude, and I propose that 'liasons' become a new part of this site. Why? IMHO this site needs a 'go between' person, or persons, who can elicit responses from vBcom and vBorg staff as to why this and that is such and so.

While I've come to realize that staff actually do listen, I don't think it's always portrayed in the best/clearest light. The point of a liason, a non-staff member, would be to step in and relay why there is, for example, this protect-your-own-mods attitude and what not.

A liason could step into a thread and say, "you know X, it might have been better to say..." and this would go for all staff, codes, designers, members, or whatever the title. A liason could, for example, ask LiveWire what change right now would affect your decision to leave.

A liason is an objective person, as objective as humanly possible, who must be answered by staff, who must be respected by staff and non-staff alike, and who can provide coherent and reasonable answers to questions, all while honoring vB com/org expectations of privacy.

IMHO, if people were more aware of certain things, there would be less of these type of threads.

Liason, what do you think?
  #107  
Old 14 May 2006, 02:01
Freesteyelz's Avatar
Freesteyelz Freesteyelz is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
These quotes sum it up nicely in one sweep:

Originally Posted by Brad
Instead of dwelling on these things and fighting with one another we need to look at the bigger picture: improving vBulletin.org.
Originally Posted by Brad
You can't decide to 'go on strike' and expect staff members to jump because you said jump. When you do thing like that you make me feel like I'm begin bullied into doing whatever it is you want done.
Originally Posted by Brad
The correct way to go about this is to discuss things in a positive manner
I was rather curious as to why it took until post #75 from the thread's poster to offer solutions. Had the solutions been offered in post #1 (along with the concerns) the calling for change could have played out much smoother. The upside: Tons of valid points; downside: the drama. There are better strategies than placing people on the defensive.
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Last edited by Freesteyelz; 14 May 2006 at 02:04.
  #108  
Old 14 May 2006, 02:04
Chris M's Avatar
Chris M Chris M is offline
 
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Real name: Chris Murphy, BSc
Members already have a liason to the staff - amykhar

Chris
  #109  
Old 14 May 2006, 02:06
calorie calorie is offline
 
Join Date: May 2003
Great, but could amykhar use some help?

PS: just an FYI: didn't know amykhar was a liason until today. Hmm.

Last edited by calorie; 14 May 2006 at 02:08.
  #110  
Old 14 May 2006, 02:21
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smacklan smacklan is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Real name: John
Lots of good points made from both sides. A thriving community is like a family and everyone will have disagreements from time to time, but in the end we all have a vested interest in getting along and resolving differences. Not being a coder, but just a lowly skin provider *winks at The Geek*, I don't have much to offer other than to say I have released some of my work for free, at a not so shaby expense to myself, and did so only for the satisfaction helping someone else it brings. The bottom line to me is that vBulletin is a rather successful company and would continue to be so not because of the hugh mod community, but because of the strength of the core product. This thread wouldn't even be going on did it not exist, so I personally don't feel that Jelsoft really "owes" any of us anything other than their great support and a hearty thanks for enriching them. I also think, however, that they are astute business people who will react to their customer's needs...it's just that large systems don't always move at a very fast pace. Having said all this, I appreciate the discussion and wish all involved parties the best and a Happy Mother's Day weekend (those of you who recognize the holiday )

Cheers!
  #111  
Old 14 May 2006, 02:28
vBulletin THEN DAYLIGHT's Avatar
vBulletin THEN DAYLIGHT vBulletin THEN DAYLIGHT is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
I must admit that when I got my lisence I was quite excited about vb.org and what will offer me. And I have been rather disapointed. The number of mods available is fantastic, I don't have a problem with that, it is the fact I have had a lot of trouble getting help and feedback on things.

I have posted several threads asking for help and feedback on various things and they have all pretty much been ignored. You try asking the same question at vb.com and they keep telling you to come back here. That tells me that this place has an obligation to offer vBulletin customers quality support with modifying their forum, something I haven't been very happy with and it doesn't make a good impression for Jelsoft.

Perhaps look into getting more dedicated support staff? You can't rely on members to be offering support as the vast majority don't know coding, hence why they come here in the first place.
  #112  
Old 14 May 2006, 02:41
Paul M's Avatar
Paul M Paul M is offline
 
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Real name: Paul M
Originally Posted by Chris M
Members already have a liason to the staff - amykhar
I'm just a bit curious - was this meant in humour ?

Just wondering because I would not consider her a liason, even though I know she seems to have some strange status here which I've never quite understood (allowing her access to staff forums ?).
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  #113  
Old 14 May 2006, 02:42
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hambil hambil is offline
 
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Real name: Hambil
Originally Posted by Paul M
I'm just a bit curious - was this meant in humour ?

Just wondering because I would not consider her a liason, even though I know she seems to have some strange status here which I've never quite understood (allowing her access to staff forums ?).
If we're supposed to be talking to amy so she can talk to the staff on our behalf, it would be nice to know that
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  #114  
Old 14 May 2006, 02:43
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Boofo Boofo is offline
 
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Real name: Rob
No, sir, Chris was serious and accurate.
  #115  
Old 14 May 2006, 02:46
Freesteyelz's Avatar
Freesteyelz Freesteyelz is offline
 
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Originally Posted by vBulletin THEN DAYLIGHT
You try asking the same question at vb.com and they keep telling you to come back here. That tells me that this place has an obligation to offer vBulletin customers quality support with modifying their forum, something I haven't been very happy with and it doesn't make a good impression for Jelsoft.
The vB.com staff do not tell customers that they'll find the answers if they come to vB.org. By linking to vB.org they're giving vB customers an option to explore modding routes.

From what I understand, vB.com staff are employees of Jelsoft while vB.org consists of volunteers. Jelsoft's obligation is to support the core product while vB.org's purpose is to extend it. The protocol for the two are different.
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  #116  
Old 14 May 2006, 02:51
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cinq cinq is offline
 
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And to think I was alone with these sentiments when I decided to throw in the towel here at vb.org sometime back, albeit without a farewell thread.

I personally get better respect and am more valued when I get paid for my work, so that's what I am doing now.

In any case, perhaps change is on the horizon. If only for the sake of the community at large.
  #117  
Old 14 May 2006, 02:59
jilly jilly is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Real name: jilly
I completely agree with going commercial. I think that good well-tested hacks are worth paying for.

I've paid quite a few people here for the hacks they've done, or bought their branding-free option as a way to show my thanks - I totally appreciate the hard work the coders here do, and I believe there is nothing wrong with asking for some compensation for the code.

And in fact, I pay for the branding-free option, but still leave the branding in, because I want to promote that hack and it's creator to any other vb person who may come by my site, and who might see it and be interested.

I deeply appreciate all the coders here ((HUGS))
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  #118  
Old 14 May 2006, 03:54
Tony G's Avatar
Tony G Tony G is offline
 
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Real name: ITS A SECRET
So for Coders to get the "recognition" they want, money will fix the job? That ain't recognition at all.

poolking - On your post on page 3, I never said being nasty was professional. I said being nice wasn't the only form of professionalism there is, and then I said replying to suggestions made, good and bad, is professional as well instead of ignoring them.

And Brad is right. It's negative posts, negative thinking, and blaming every single problem on the staff that is ruining the atmosphere on the forum. If people want this forum to improve, I think a lot of people need to change their attitudes around here - to stop being so critisizing of everything staff post, to support staff decisions as well as critisise them in a non-abusive way, to accept when decisions are rejected, and so on. If the community does this, vB.org will become a lot of a better place.

vBulletin THEN DAYLIGHT - Support here is never guarenteed. There are so many questions asked here every day its impossible for all to be answered. As well as that, I'd say.. 60 or 70% never include enough or the right information for someone to support. Once again, another thing that can't be completly blamed on Jelsoft or the volunteering staff.

Last edited by Tony G; 14 May 2006 at 03:57.
  #119  
Old 14 May 2006, 04:04
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Roms Roms is offline
 
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Real name: Roms
Originally Posted by Tony G
Support here is never guarenteed. There are so many questions asked here every day its impossible for all to be answered. As well as that, I'd say.. 60 or 70% never include enough or the right information for someone to support. Once again, another thing that can't be completly blamed on Jelsoft or the volunteering staff.
I'm sure there are many others willing to volunteer thier time, perhaps the staff should make look into adding a few more people.
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  #120  
Old 14 May 2006, 04:06
Tony G's Avatar
Tony G Tony G is offline
 
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Members don't need to be moderators to support... if anything, its people who have the dedication to support without needing a status to do it that would be looked highly upon for future moderators.
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