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  #16  
Old 21 Jun 2019, 14:38
Dave Dave is offline
 
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In the end, it's all about money and they cannot make any money with vBulletin 3/4 anymore since it's all about vBulletin 5, which makes sense from a business perspective.

If you have PHP 7 (and in the future PHP 8) compatibility issues then any decent PHP developer out there should be able to fix these issues. It doesn't have to be a vBulletin developer.
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  #17  
Old 21 Jun 2019, 15:47
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In Omnibus In Omnibus is offline
 
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Originally Posted by nhawk View Post
You THINK you know why they left.

Unless you've personally spoken directly to each developer that has left, you are making assumptions. I can make that statement as fact because I have never made why I left fully public and you haven't spoken to me.

And there is no point in discussing those reasons because in most cases they still exist today in the current version of vB5. There's nothing that will make vB5 fix problems that were brought out in alpha testing and still exist in the bug tracker today after years of being there.
I think you'd be surprised the number with whom I have spoken. No one purchased vBulletin 5 with the expectation that development of third party add ons and modifications would become virtually non-existent. Customers wanted to know why. I am a customer. Again, there were a number of reasons the people with who I spoke left.

Some of those reasons included the difficulty and the inability to make enough money to justify rewriting existing mods from hook-based to API-based code. Some left for health reasons. Some left because they felt forums were not the future or at least not their future. Some had grievances with the manner with which vBulletin conscripted the third party mods and add ons site.

I'm not speaking for you. You're perfectly capable of doing that yourself. When a number of coders spoke of "problems" they were specifically referring to a lack of hooks. You may or may not be referring to that as a problem. I don't know. I never claimed to speak for everyone. I can only speak as to what I have been told firsthand.

This isn't really relevant to the issues with crowdfunding vBulletin 4 but it's an important discussion that warrants far more consideration than it has been given. Glenn Vergara seems to have no issue developing add ons and mods for vBulletin 5. DragonByte Tech was doing fine with it until they determined there was money to be made from XF and IPB since they charge for every add on and mod.

People get angry when I claim there were a good number of hackers who weren't really coders or developers making vBulletin 4 products. There were. A number of those people did not know how to rewrite their products for an API-based system and had no interest in learning. I spoke with several of them as well. I never said you were one of them. As you stated we've never spoken on any personal level.
  #18  
Old 21 Jun 2019, 17:42
nhawk nhawk is offline
 
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Originally Posted by In Omnibus View Post
DragonByte Tech was doing fine with it until they determined there was money to be made from XF and IPB since they charge for every add on and mod.
Myth. They don't charge for every add-on and mod.

But as you said, this really has nothing to do with funding vB4. So we'll end it there.

Last edited by nhawk; 21 Jun 2019 at 17:56.
  #19  
Old 21 Jun 2019, 18:20
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In Omnibus In Omnibus is offline
 
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Originally Posted by nhawk View Post
Myth. They don't charge for every add-on and mod.

But as you said, this really has nothing to do with funding vB4. So we'll end it there.
Reread that. I said there is money to be made from XF. I said IPBoard charges for all their add ons. Or at least they used to. I'm fairly certain that's accurate.
  #20  
Old 21 Jun 2019, 20:48
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Alan_SP Alan_SP is offline
 
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Originally Posted by In Omnibus View Post
I'd respectfully request you not make assumptions as to what I do or do not know about server management or anything else.
Why not?

You show very openly your "knowledge", you make very wrong statements and now, when I make arguments that contradict your false and untrue statements, I should stop pointing out how wrong and untrue you are?

Sorry, you obviously think you know more than you actually do.

Also, thing is, you claim things that may scare some people with less knowledge into thinking you're right and your statements true.

If people want to have vB3/4 forums for years to come, they can. There's way to do that. Now and for 50, 100, and even 150 years even, if there would be people wanting to do something like that.

Making such outrages claims that having VPS is something too expensive, or that requires "too much knowledge" is just along lines of how much you yourself don't know.

So, if you're so bald to make such false statements, expect that there's someone who will right these wrongs. As I did.

And, learn something about servers man, will come in handy even to you...
  #21  
Old 21 Jun 2019, 23:33
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In Omnibus In Omnibus is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Alan_SP View Post
Making such outrages claims that having VPS is something too expensive, or that requires "too much knowledge" is just along lines of how much you yourself don't know.
I'm just going to leave this here because I did not say either one of these things. These are both misquotes out of context.

This is what I said:

The typical forums administrator is not using self-managed VPS. For one thing it is considerably more expensive. For another it requires a level of technical knowledge many do not possess or care to possess.
You put words in my mouth and then claimed I lied.
  #22  
Old 22 Jun 2019, 20:48
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Alan_SP Alan_SP is offline
 
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Originally Posted by In Omnibus View Post
You put words in my mouth and then claimed I lied.
Of course not. I'm not putting anything into your mouth (or fingers to be more precise).

I just follow your claims made in this thread here. You stated this:

Originally Posted by In Omnibus View Post
vBulletin 3.8.12 is a custom build not available to the public and because vBulletin hosts it on its own servers they are able to make it compliant with their SQL and PHP and LAMP stack and whatever else they may have running. It would not run on any publicly available hosting.
That's where I started and corrected you. After that, you make claim after claim that shows how little you know, how biased (and wrongly at that) you are.

Now you try to get my words out of context to shame me. But, you're the one who forgets this is forum, we can check everything you have "put in your mouth yourself" to use your phrase, and what I wrote back.

So, VPS and other servers can and will run vB3/4 forums in years to come, if there's people who want to run them on these publicly available hosting.

Shame on you for trying such low tactics, but more shame on you for your gross lack of knowledge in general. Or maybe it isn't lack of knowledge, but something else...

Anyway, to just conclude for other interested parties, if there's need to run vB3/4 forums in years to come, it is possible and it will be possible.

Saying this, I'm not persuading anyone to actually run any particular forum software. Let everyone of us choose what they want. But not just lie to people (or tell something that is not true out of lack of knowledge).
  #23  
Old 26 Jun 2019, 00:13
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TheLastSuperman TheLastSuperman is offline
 
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In this one thread let's agree to disagree and leave it at that! I hate to see you two argue or comment like this whatever you may deem to call it, I truly do and I'd like to leave the thread up for constructive feedback.

I would break down the replies and try to be as unbiased as possible and try to help understand this more but that's not my place nor my prerogative only closing the thread is once it becomes out of hand per say reply-wise. I'll leave it up to good judgement and speaking to each other moving forward with some moderation of respect.

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  #24  
Old 26 Jun 2019, 00:25
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TheLastSuperman TheLastSuperman is offline
 
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Originally Posted by In Omnibus View Post
Glenn Vergara seems to have no issue developing add ons and mods for vBulletin 5. DragonByte Tech was doing fine with it until they determined there was money to be made from XF and IPB since they charge for every add on and mod.
Glenn is simply a ROCK STAR vB5 mod-wise in my book, my definition meaning he's committed!

The DBTech statement might be untrue in a sense, I don't know though as I don't read any publications by them anymore after the indictments and them being brought up on charges hence why if you didn't know of this then you wouldn't consider that when making that statement, I would go further into that but you can use Google to learn of that if you feel the need - there will be no discussion of those events (specific details) on this forum other than my tidbit of info just now provided which is intended to allow you to know of something that occurred, to research if you see fit and make your own judgment/assumption on the matter. Alternatively it could be due to Xenforo having a paid mod area, developers who can post there and the simple lack of that here on the org i.e. what I mean is on vBulletin they didn't have as much competition as they do on Xenforo modification and plugin-wise but I'm unsure of IPB currently or rather Invision Community so I can't even comment there.
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  #25  
Old 26 Jun 2019, 14:34
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In Omnibus In Omnibus is offline
 
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Originally Posted by TheLastSuperman View Post
Glenn is simply a ROCK STAR vB5 mod-wise in my book, my definition meaning he's committed!

The DBTech statement might be untrue in a sense, I don't know though as I don't read any publications by them anymore after the indictments and them being brought up on charges hence why if you didn't know of this then you wouldn't consider that when making that statement, I would go further into that but you can use Google to learn of that if you feel the need - there will be no discussion of those events (specific details) on this forum other than my tidbit of info just now provided which is intended to allow you to know of something that occurred, to research if you see fit and make your own judgment/assumption on the matter. Alternatively it could be due to Xenforo having a paid mod area, developers who can post there and the simple lack of that here on the org i.e. what I mean is on vBulletin they didn't have as much competition as they do on Xenforo modification and plugin-wise but I'm unsure of IPB currently or rather Invision Community so I can't even comment there.
I'm taking the liberty of assuming you're referring to the child pornography cases against both Iain and Fillip. While that's a good reason not to do business with them they abandoned their vBulletin customers prior to those charges. I'm not going to ask if they abandoned their customers before or after they became paedophiles since apparently at least some of the material they possessed was dating back to 2007.

Quite frankly I think more people should be aware of this because they would see a lot less business if people knew about it.
  #26  
Old 26 Jun 2019, 14:58
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webmastersun webmastersun is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Dave View Post
In the end, it's all about money and they cannot make any money with vBulletin 3/4 anymore since it's all about vBulletin 5, which makes sense from a business perspective.
But the problem is, users like me still want to pay for vBulletin 4, at least buy "extra support" if it is still supported.


Originally Posted by Dave View Post
If you have PHP 7 (and in the future PHP 8) compatibility issues then any decent PHP developer out there should be able to fix these issues. It doesn't have to be a vBulletin developer.
Honestly I applied this by hiring some developers to fix some issues on addons when upgrade to PHP 7.x and vB4.2.5 but if there are more people pay for a person to support vB then all community will be supported than just me. I think that will be better to add funds together.
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  #27  
Old 26 Jun 2019, 15:43
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In Omnibus In Omnibus is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Alan_SP View Post
Of course not. I'm not putting anything into your mouth (or fingers to be more precise).

I just follow your claims made in this thread here. You stated this:



That's where I started and corrected you. After that, you make claim after claim that shows how little you know, how biased (and wrongly at that) you are.

Now you try to get my words out of context to shame me. But, you're the one who forgets this is forum, we can check everything you have "put in your mouth yourself" to use your phrase, and what I wrote back.

So, VPS and other servers can and will run vB3/4 forums in years to come, if there's people who want to run them on these publicly available hosting.

Shame on you for trying such low tactics, but more shame on you for your gross lack of knowledge in general. Or maybe it isn't lack of knowledge, but something else...

Anyway, to just conclude for other interested parties, if there's need to run vB3/4 forums in years to come, it is possible and it will be possible.

Saying this, I'm not persuading anyone to actually run any particular forum software. Let everyone of us choose what they want. But not just lie to people (or tell something that is not true out of lack of knowledge).
It's also possible to run DOS 2.0 but why would you want to? There's a point at which all software becomes obsolete. vBulletin 4.x is approaching ten years old. vBulletin 3.x was initially released in 2004. Yes, it's technically correct that you can run outdated software, and, yes, you can always find some hosting somewhere that will support virtually anything, especially if you're willing to spend the additional money for self-managed hosting and have the time to spend learning how to self-manage a server. Most people don't have the time even if they have the money. You can't reasonably build a community if you're spending all your time in the back end or server.

Giving people advice to use outdated software that requires more than following the manual instructions is poor practice. What happens when it is no longer possible to run outdated software? Especially after it's been so heavily modified to work that it cannot be updated using the script provided.

I'm not going to go ad hominem here because it's unhelpful to anyone. I just think the advice to use ten or fifteen year old software and modifications or add ons because it can still be made to work, security holes and all, is not sound advice.
  #28  
Old 26 Jun 2019, 21:13
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Alan_SP Alan_SP is offline
 
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Originally Posted by In Omnibus View Post
It's also possible to run DOS 2.0 but why would you want to?
This is how you try make your "arguments" true, but thing is, you stated something completely different: People wouldn't be able to run vB3/4 on publicly available servers.

I didn't try to make argument that people want to use vB3/4, I stated that people will be able to run vB3/4 if they want to.

If people want to, or not, I don't try to argue. It's up to each and every one of us.

You really don't even know what you're talking yourself.
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