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  #31  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 07:20
GoTTi GoTTi is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
ynot? look. its our choice as subscribers, paying members, hackers, modifiers, what ever we are on here that are able to download these attachments to help this guy make his hack. i am a beta test on his site, and im helping him make this addon with a smile cuz i know that this hack has very big potential for not just my site but hundreds of other sites that run vbulletin. we are the paying customers here. he is a paying customer. its our choice if we choose to help him with beta testing, and since this is the addon world for vbulletin, supported by vb, offered as a extra service by vb with our licenses, then it should be our choice to help him beta test...thats the whole purpose of the beta test process. and we all KNOW he is gunna charge for this addon, maybe, who knows, he might change his mind, but as of right now, this option can make sites money so why shouldnt he?

its like a controlling situation. theres a matter of control on this addon here that is getting taken to far. like with the hosted forums addon that was here that got removed because it bends the policy we agree to by hosting forums. it ads a whole new world to the vbulletin layout, the purpose of the forum, the design, the idea of expanding sites beyond possible imagination, and what happens? it gets removed because the idea is to allow people to have their own custom forums without actually purchasing the forum from vb. well yea i see the infringment, the work around vb's license agreement to that hack, but to something like this, no. especially being in beta mode, no. this community should absouloutely offer its support to anyone with valid licenses offering to expand this community in its design, code, and services its offering. and that store that he is creating needs support on it. hes creating and taking time to create something that can benefit us all, and not one person, rule or not, should moderate that because he might get a 10$ paypal payment sent to him for the purchase of this addon.

and im lost in the idea of commercial software. this script and code is all opened source. the php is open source code, all the writing and data is opened source. all of it is available online to use for whoever. so how do we categorize it as opened source, free or commercial? he offered this hack on here for users with valid license users, users that have paid vbulletin for their software and all he is doing is modifying it, expanding the forum capabilites, and he wants to make a buck on it. its no big deal, and its far from commercializing.
  #32  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 07:54
Guest190829
Guest
 
I just bought vbulletincoders.com. I plan to use a modified version of my vbspace script along with vbavanced Directory as a method to advertise Coders with commercial sites and commercial hacks. Along with their profiles will be a rating system, testimonials, etc...etc...This will keep Jelsoft out of it. If you have any suggestions PM me.

Also if the domain name shouldn't be in the post, then a mod can remove it. I'm not too sure.
  #33  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 08:01
KidneyBoy's Avatar
KidneyBoy KidneyBoy is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Originally Posted by Brad

We wouldn't allow photopost to come here and release a beta version only to pull it later on. If we made an exception for the 'little guy' we couldn't stop the people that really do intend on exploiting this place and its members.

The staff has been discussing this issue for some time but there are strong feelings on both sides and it's not something that we can just change over night. I encourage you guys to keep discussing this but please try to do it in a constructive manner.
Has the staff even considered what the end user wants? Have they even asked if the end-users have a strong opinion? Does that even have any weight on the decision, or does the staff feel that the end-users have no clue what we/they are saying?

Having a separate forum has been brought up a few times, and it seems like it's being ignored. I don't see what the problem is with creating a forum that is labelled "COMMERCIAL MODIFICATIONS/PLUG-INS" in which the user can use their own judgement either to participate in a beta trial (or not), or at least let the end users know what they are working on, (description of the MOD or addon, as well as information on how to purchase/download it). I believe that most everyone on here just wants a site where they can locate what they are looking for, or randomly fall on something that they feel would be value-added to their boards. In the end it's the USER'S choice to buy the mod/addon if they want it. Nobody's making them do that. Also, you mention that letting the "little guy" post their hacks, then you'd have to let anyone else.......Well two points:

Firstoff, WHO CARES? If it's something that adds value, I don't care if it came from one person or a company of 100. Hell if Microsoft wanted to release some sort of a kickass mod/addon to vBulletin, I would want to know about it and make my own judgement call on adding it or not. If The Geek releases something, ditto. Why should we have to visit 100 different sites just to mod a board, when this site is capable of providing "The Ultimate vb Resource" (as you guys have in your tag line)? Several possible mods/addons might not be found that could really enhance a site. All because Jelsoft decides to make it a policy not to post about "commercial" mods/plugins. Again, let's think about the end-users.

Nextoff, hell you (Jelsoft) run your own site. If you don't want a "big" developer/company to showcase their mods/addons here, then don't let them. Hell I've repeated the following line SEVERAL times: "This site is a privledge, not a right. The administration will determine what content will be allowed and not allowed." But with this thought, still keep the end user in mind.
  #34  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 08:03
spence2 spence2 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Sorry, Danny.VBT, but according to vBulletin.com, you are not allowed to use the word "vBulletin" in your domain name if your website generates any revenue. They say it infringes on their trademark. :squareeyed:

And, no, I ain't kiddin'.
  #35  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 08:05
Guest190829
Guest
 
I won't be recieving any revenue.....it will be a nonprofit website. Can anyone tell me if this is still allowed?
  #36  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 08:10
spence2 spence2 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
This post is to the point ... although "clear as mud"!
  #37  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 08:10
Guest190829
Guest
 
Yeah I was just looking at that thread. But what about vbulletin-fans.com and that whole bunch of site run by floris. He specifically says they are unofficial sites, why can't I do the same?
  #38  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 08:12
Marco van Herwaarden Marco van Herwaarden is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Members are already allowed to put a lot of information in their signatures. Even with the restriction of commercial language (the best, etc...) you can do a lot to let other members know what you are offering and where to get it. So in my opinion a lot of the arguments in this thread are already covered.

There is already a long time a discussion going on between Staff on ways to improve vb.org by offering information about commercial modifications. Beside the discussion if we should allow it at all, most time goes into discussing in what form we could put this. There are a lot of angles to look at this, and because of this it will not be a fast discussion. We do listen to our members and we are considering ideas, but they will only be implemented (if at all) after we had a good look at it from all sides.
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  #39  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 08:14
spence2 spence2 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
@danny.VBT
You could try asking them ... but, as you can see, I already tried.

Maybe you'll have better luck than I did!
  #40  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 08:15
Marco van Herwaarden Marco van Herwaarden is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Originally Posted by spence2
This post is to the point ... although "clear as mud"!
I don't see any reply by a Jelsoft official taking an official stand on this.

PS I think Floris did ask Jelsoft for permission before using those domains.
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  #41  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 08:15
Guest190829
Guest
 
Yeah, I'll ask them. It'd be pretty wierd if I wouldn't be able to when there are domains out there not run by jelsoft that contain the name vbulletin.
  #42  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 08:19
spence2 spence2 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
That thread began with the question ... and was posted on Aug 3rd 2005, 8:17am ... clearly, Jelsoft has chosen for 20 days not to reply publicly as to why permission was granted to Floris (a VB employee) and Filburt1 (vB org Mod) but denied to Kall.

Last edited by spence2; 25 Aug 2005 at 08:35.
  #43  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 08:30
Guest190829
Guest
 
Okay, I emailed vbulletin, and hopefully I will get a response.
  #44  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 09:21
Brad Brad is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Originally Posted by KidneyBoy
Nextoff, hell you (Jelsoft) run your own site. If you don't want a "big" developer/company to showcase their mods/addons here, then don't let them. Hell I've repeated the following line SEVERAL times: "This site is a privledge, not a right. The administration will determine what content will be allowed and not allowed." But with this thought, still keep the end user in mind.
We do keep the end user in mind, the whole reason we have been discussing this amongst the staff was due to suggestions made by the users here . If you guys want to suggest something that is why this forum is here, and our PM boxes are always open if you need something or want to discuss something.

As marco said sometimes it takes awhile before we come to agreement on if something should be changed and how it should be done. Allowing commercial hacks here would be a big change in this site's policy because they have not been allowed for as long as I've been a member here. Again it's simply something that won't happen 'over night'.


Originally Posted by GoTTi
and im lost in the idea of commercial software. this script and code is all opened source. the php is open source code, all the writing and data is opened source. all of it is available online to use for whoever. so how do we categorize it as opened source, free or commercial? he offered this hack on here for users with valid license users, users that have paid vbulletin for their software and all he is doing is modifying it, expanding the forum capabilites, and he wants to make a buck on it. its no big deal, and its far from commercializing.
When a script must be paid for to be used it's considered to be commercial software. Although the term 'paid hack' might be better suited to this situation.

Again after discussion with the author it was our understanding that:

1) The author intended to charge for the script once beta testing was over.
2) The author planned to remove the beta version once testing was over
3) There would be no 'lite' version released here once beta testing was over.

Under our current rules this is not allowed, see: www.vbulletin.org/forum/rules.php

3) Lite versions of commercial hacks/scripts may be released here as long as:
a) The lite version is fully functional
b) The lite version is not time limited in any way
c) The lite version is completely free
d) The lite version is stand-alone and completely separate to the full version
e) A link back to the full version is allowed, as long as no price or promotional language is embedded into the lite version.
Simply put: We do not allowed 'paid hacks' to be posted, we allow do allow lite versions of paid hacks assuming they agree with the rules quoted above.

Originally Posted by GoTTi
ynot? look. its our choice as subscribers, paying members, hackers, modifiers, what ever we are on here that are able to download these attachments to help this guy make his hack. i am a beta test on his site, and im helping him make this addon with a smile cuz i know that this hack has very big potential for not just my site but hundreds of other sites that run vbulletin. we are the paying customers here. he is a paying customer. its our choice if we choose to help him with beta testing, and since this is the addon world for vbulletin, supported by vb, offered as a extra service by vb with our licenses, then it should be our choice to help him beta test...thats the whole purpose of the beta test process. and we all KNOW he is gunna charge for this addon, maybe, who knows, he might change his mind, but as of right now, this option can make sites money so why shouldnt he?
I agree he did the right thing by letting it be known from the start, no one is trying to label him as a con-man so I apologize if that is how I am coming off. Of course it's your choice to beta test but again the hack in question did not comply with the rules mentioned above.

It's his choice to charge for it, it's your choice to beta test it or buy it but the hack will have to comply with our polices before it can be posted on these forums, it's as simple as that. What I am getting at is us arguing over the status of this modification is going to get us nowhere fast and I have re-stated the reasons why it has been removed many times already.

If you think our policy on commercial hacks should be changed feel free to bring your suggestions to the table.

Also I don't mean to come off as harsh so please don't take it that way.
  #45  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 10:09
Marco van Herwaarden Marco van Herwaarden is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Originally Posted by Brad
will have to comply with our polices
ROFLMAO 'polices'
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