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  #31  
Old 16 Jul 2015, 19:58
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cellarius cellarius is offline
 
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You are talking in riddles.
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  #32  
Old 16 Jul 2015, 21:17
Mark.B Mark.B is offline
 
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Originally Posted by cellarius View Post
Is it really so surprising that people who run a forum want a software that offers a working forum solution? And, be honest, people did not dislike vB5 because it tried to be innovative, but because it was slow, buggy as hell and missing half the features they were used to. Blaming the vB5 desaster on ignorant customers won't change that.
Come on Cellarius, that isn't the point I was making as you well know. I even stated as much in the post.

The issue is nothing whatsoever to with "slow, buggy as hell". It is that by and large, customers seem to prefer forums to function in much the same way they have always done. If you want to take vB out of the equation, it's why XenForo seems to do very well (software that works pretty much like forums always have), whereas Vanilla is struggling (software that tries to do it differently).
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  #33  
Old 17 Jul 2015, 06:52
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cellarius cellarius is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Mark.B View Post
The issue is nothing whatsoever to with "slow, buggy as hell".
Honestly? You think that vB5's failure has nothing to with that? Or xenForo's success has nothing to do with quality? It's all just customers being backwards? IB just a victim of it's innovative approach? That has to be an interesting parallel universe working for IB.
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  #34  
Old 17 Jul 2015, 17:41
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BigAl205 BigAl205 is offline
 
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Whenever I have an issue, I try my best to NOT go to the .com site. Trying to search for a solution over there is tedious at best.
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  #35  
Old 18 Jul 2015, 09:43
Mark.B Mark.B is offline
 
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Originally Posted by cellarius View Post
Honestly? You think that vB5's failure has nothing to with that? Or xenForo's success has nothing to do with quality? It's all just customers being backwards? IB just a victim of it's innovative approach?
Would you like to point out where I said any of that?

This is why joining in these type of threads is just utterly pointless.

Words = twisted
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  #36  
Old 18 Jul 2015, 10:57
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TheLastSuperman TheLastSuperman is offline
 
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You guys if we could use tone I'd sass the lot of ya!

Some folks prefer Chevy to Ford and vice-verse, most just because however some due to having valid complaints. I dare not point blame, I shall though laugh at shame and with that I'm off to local yard sales folks! I do crack the humor, my wife the whip.
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  #37  
Old 18 Jul 2015, 22:52
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cellarius cellarius is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Mark.B View Post
Would you like to point out where I said any of that?
Just read your posts. I even quoted the most relevant parts.

@Superman: This is not about who prefers what forum, but an IB-employee spinning the facts in a way that blames the vB5 fail on the customers. This is ludicrous.
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  #38  
Old 19 Jul 2015, 09:33
Mark.B Mark.B is offline
 
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Originally Posted by cellarius View Post
Just read your posts. I even quoted the most relevant parts.

@Superman: This is not about who prefers what forum, but an IB-employee spinning the facts in a way that blames the vB5 fail on the customers. This is ludicrous.
That's not what I'm doing at all.

Below is my post again, for clarity. I am talking about the fact that forum software is generally in decline because it doesn't innovate, and the reason it doesn't innovate is because its existing customer base doesn't want it to and balks at anything that deviates too far from the norm. I also pointed out that this is why XenForo does ok (it's just the same forum structure and system that's been used for decades, with a couple of bells and whistles on top) whereas software such as Vanilla, that tries to be completely different, struggles to make any real impact. The trouble is, XenForo (and Invision as well) "does ok" amongst an ever-diminishing group of customers who want to run forums. How does any company break out of that and attract brand new customers who are used to Facebook and Twitter, without alienating everyone it already has? That's the issue.

Not one iota of the below text "blames vB5's failure on customers".

==================

Forum software generally needs to head somewhere different. None of the current systems - including XenForo - do anything other than tweak what is now a decades-old concept. There's nothing truly innovative in any of them.

The trouble is, what do you do? vB5 actually did try to innovate quite a bit (whatever people may think of the actual execution of that), but a lot of the changes got reversed during the early alphas because they were universally disliked. Now, a lot of the developmental focus seems to be on making it more like vB4 and vB3 rather than adding anything truly innovative, because that's what customers are demanding.

So the problem you have is - change stuff too much and existing forum owners will run a mile.
Keep things as they are and the market continues to stagnate as the general public seem to prefer nonsense like Facebook and Twitter.

I don't profess to know the way forward.

========================
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  #39  
Old 19 Jul 2015, 13:50
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Paul M Paul M is offline
 
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Originally Posted by cellarius View Post
@Superman: This is not about who prefers what forum, but an IB-employee spinning the facts in a way that blames the vB5 fail on the customers. This is ludicrous.
Almost as ludicrous as someone trying to twist a post about what customers seem to prefer into the poster blaming customers.

oh wait .........
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  #40  
Old 20 Jul 2015, 16:18
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Chris8 Chris8 is offline
 
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If they want vbulletin 6 to be success the works on it should be started where vbulletin 3.8.X were ended. So, vBulleting 3.8.X should be modernized and some new optional functionality should be added (more social networking and interactions between users, stuff like for example Personalized Activity Stream - current mods for that suck).
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  #41  
Old 21 Jul 2015, 03:38
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Zachery Zachery is offline
 
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There is a serious amount of good stuff in 5. I think the biggest hangup atm aside from hooks is the template system. If they can identify its the issue and fix it, 5 could see big improvements.
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  #42  
Old 21 Jul 2015, 04:58
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napy8gen napy8gen is offline
 
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Vb5 should look what its competitor is doing. I think I like xenforo direction because it feels new and modern using it.Even though the default style is not anyway near to modern. But there are many stuff we feels very nice. Look at its pagination when there are too many pages here . There is an arrow, when you click it animates. These are cool stuff. vb5 just look solid and stiff. no hover effects nor simple animation.

It's stylevar properties is a leap 10 year forward- vbulletin no near to xenforo. Template system is good. Code is very clean. But vb5 template editor has line number feature which is very good.

vbulletin also has to look back at vbulletin.org as main modification place. If you look at xenforo -resources. you can sell stuff too for paid add on - xenforo forum you can do everything. And you don't need to ask people to go somewhere else to get customisation support like vbulletin does. It's like asking someone to leave. There is no good asking mod question here in vbulletin.com go to vbulletin.org instead. Or in vbulletin.org. you cannot advertise or sell product in here you stupid. These all have to go.

If you don't want to buy xenforo to be vb6. Then follow what they are doing to grow their community and software.
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  #43  
Old 21 Jul 2015, 05:39
Drake M Drake M is offline
 
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The main reason people used to buy vbulletin not because of it was solid, fast and non-buggy. It was the existing of vbuleltin.org, plenty of plugins, templates, for free, to try things and to learn from a friendly community.

Well, nowaday these things are no where to be found

vBulletin.org is dead, so does Vbulletin 5 (at least).

Behind Xenforo success is sadly a strong push from vbulletin itself.

People disapointed with the latest release of vbulletin 5, since they were patiently waited like years to have a STABLE release of vbuleltin 4, they expected something outstanding, but we all see what they got, buggy, slow as hell vbulletin 5 and most of the well-know developers never recommend it, well actually they do but it was highly recommend people to AVOID it.

If Xenforo was another good forum software, it would never reach the position it is right now, but since the PR was good, "The former lead developer of vbulletin 4, the developer of vbulletin before it goes mad", people really buy that.

Last edited by Drake M; 21 Jul 2015 at 16:02.
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  #44  
Old 21 Jul 2015, 11:41
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Paul M Paul M is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Drake M View Post
Behind Xenforo sucess is sadly a strong push from vbulletin itself.
IB (not VB) massively shot themselves in the foot with the seemingly pointless legal action they took.

That gave loads of publicity to XF, and at the same time, made IB the villain everyone hates.

To this day I still dont understand why they did that, it backfired hugely IMO.
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  #45  
Old 21 Jul 2015, 17:54
Mark.B Mark.B is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Drake M View Post
The main reason people used to buy vbulletin not because of it was solid, fast and non-buggy. It was the existing of vbuleltin.org, plenty of plugins, templates, for free
This is a myth.

The vast majority of customers never customised their boards at all. Most didn't even bother with a custom style. The same issue is seen with XenForo and IPB, look at how many completely stock sites there are out there.

That's not to say there was no value in vbulletin.org, far from it, and I will always be its greatest advocate and supporter, but the idea that most customers used it is not true at all.
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