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  #46  
Old 21 Jul 2015, 21:35
KGodel's Avatar
KGodel KGodel is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
Real name: James
I have to say that after working with various systems, free and otherwise over the years, I am quite impressed with Xenforo. I use it for a non-main interest board I run and it is very smooth, fast, and easy to navigate. The vB admin options and back end took me quite awhile to understand fully, even with the knowledge I had working with free systems before it. If Xenforo had comparable mods to all the things I need there is a good chance my community might be pushing me to switch to it, but since there isn't, we stick with vBulletin. I do hope that the vB team would see what a great product vB4 has become and put more resources into making it even better...(I mean, we all would like that right?)

I see where Mark is coming from. Forums for the most part haven't really evolved over the years in their core functionality. It is difficult to say how they should evolve or what the "new generation" of message board should look like. What I think vBulletin did wrong was decide to try to be innovative with their main product when that is absolutely not what its core customer base wanted. If you want to attempt to see what the "next generation" of forums should be, create a smaller new product that isn't beholden to a current customer base to roll out and test different things, or, here is a thought, create mods for your current project to change its functionality in new ways and see what people think. They put all of their eggs in one basket in this case, betting everything on the new "innovations" they had, and what they ended up with was a less functional, less customizable piece of software from the consumers' standpoints.

I like vB, and for me personally vB.org has been the only saving grace of this software. If it wasn't for the great help and friendly atmosphere I get here I'd have left a long time ago and moved back to free stuff or hopped onto the Xenforo train.
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  #47  
Old 23 Jul 2015, 11:00
Proper Syntax Proper Syntax is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Originally Posted by Mark.B View Post
This is a myth.

The vast majority of customers never customised their boards at all. Most didn't even bother with a custom style. The same issue is seen with XenForo and IPB, look at how many completely stock sites there are out there.

That's not to say there was no value in vbulletin.org, far from it, and I will always be its greatest advocate and supporter, but the idea that most customers used it is not true at all.
This is true, but the devil's in the details. The minority of people on this site accounted for an obscene amount of direct or indirect referrals (ultimately sales, positioning, and stability) to vBulletin.

IPB would've crushed vBulletin in the absence of vBulletin.org. It's also provided strong momentum to the software. It's also served as a migration backstop due to old modifications. I know many, many admins who won't leave vB due to old mods.

TL;DR, imagine what vBulletin would be and where it would be, without vBulletin.org. This is what I mean by details, and we can still go deeper than that. Nobody who's been around for a while will deny the importance this site held.

As Paul said, IB shot themselves in the foot. They didn't realize that referrals were the #1 source of vBulletin's business, and how vBulletin.org was an integral part of that. vBulletin.org wasn't their only source, but it was both large and multi-dimensional.

And I say IB didn't realize how important vBulletin.org was because of, you know, vB5.

Last edited by Proper Syntax; 23 Jul 2015 at 11:23. Reason: Clarification
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  #48  
Old 23 Jul 2015, 23:32
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Zachery Zachery is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Real name: Zachery Woods
While addons and modifications did help sell the software. For the majority of my 11 years less than 20~% of sites I ever worked on had addons. Most sites barely had the logo changed.

The addons themselves didn't sell vBulletin directly, however kick ass forums running addons, or highly customized did.
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  #49  
Old 03 Aug 2015, 14:34
grey_goose grey_goose is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Originally Posted by Zachery View Post
The addons themselves didn't sell vBulletin directly, however kick ass forums running addons, or highly customized did.
This. When people want to set up forums, it's the forums they remember that guide their choice. Sure, 80% (reversing the 20% cited earlier) then discover modding is a bit of work and never do it, but I don't buy a correlation of 'finished product' with 'purchasing choice'.

Sorry to threadsurrect, but I'm at a cross-roads and have been doing some reading to see what the status of vb5 is. I've turned into That Guy who has a house of cards built on dependencies that have become restrictive.

I won't even lie and say that the current state of vb.org isn't a major factor.

What I'd like to see, what no one is getting right, is a great CMS. I use mediawiki heavily, but it's lack of granular permissions is holding me back. Yet, it's ability to template within and embed metadata allows for dynamic and formatted content that forums alone don't support.

Eventually, someone's going to get it right. Either a CMS with robust forum features, or a forum with robust CMS features. Or a full-fledged bridge.
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  #50  
Old 04 Aug 2015, 20:13
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TheLastSuperman TheLastSuperman is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real name: Michael Miller Jr
  • Wordpress as CMS and/or blog.
  • vBulletin 4 as forum.
  • Wordpress+vB bridge.
  • Done.

vB CMS? Ok, could be better and vB5 perhaps one day, I still haven't decided about that schmuck (referring to vB5 as the... yeah you guessed it ).
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