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  #1  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 09:11
GoTTi GoTTi is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
modification graveyard problem! gettin real annoyed now

im getting sick of the graveyard thing now...

having a lot of mods installed on my forum, like most users, we tend to try and keep up with newer mods that come out, and like to remove/uninstall previous mods that are either out dated or moved to the graveyard, BUT what if we dont have the original zip file install any longer? well i wouldnt know what files to delete or templates to edit if i cant GET the ORIGINAL file now would i? and if the releasing modder is not answering pm's, what am i suppose to just accept that? NO! we all know removing a mod by uninstalling it with the plugin isnt always the only way to go, so vb.org needs to come up with a better way of managing mods being dumped in the graveyard.

my suggestion: if a mod is being moved to the graveyard and there are users that have it installed, be a little bit more courteous and before closing the mod out, reply to the mod thread and give DETAILS ON WHAT EXACTLY NEEDS TO BE DONE TO REMOVE THE MOD!!!the reverse of the install directions would be a nice thing to read once in a while incase we dont have the original files or zip file or whatever we might have had to install the thing. so posting the files needed for deleting, template edits needed for removal, and the plugin needed to be removed would be REAL helpful for us forum admins trying to stay up to date with current releases.
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  #2  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 09:27
Marco van Herwaarden Marco van Herwaarden is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Yes it would be nice if the authors left uninstall instructions. But you would be in the same problem if you had installed an older version of a modification that have been overwritten with new versions.

Bottom line is that you are yourself responsible to keep the documentation (and if needed install files) secured on your own PC or elsewhere. You can never trust that something you once downloaded anywhere on the internet to be available forever.
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  #3  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 09:52
GoTTi GoTTi is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Marco van Herwaarden View Post
Yes it would be nice if the authors left uninstall instructions. But you would be in the same problem if you had installed an older version of a modification that have been overwritten with new versions.

Bottom line is that you are yourself responsible to keep the documentation (and if needed install files) secured on your own PC or elsewhere. You can never trust that something you once downloaded anywhere on the internet to be available forever.
but we arent the ones putting mods in the graveyard. the team here is. so if whoever decided to do so, atleast post the information as to what we need to do to uninstall the mod, files to delete, so we know what to do.

its not about responsibility to keep records. stuff happens like accidental deletes, viruses, crashes of hard drives, so on. and we rely on the data here sometimes to guide us back. its not about having the authors leave instructions on uninstall, its about the person moving a mod with installed users to the graveyard and putting the uninstall procedure in the first post so the installed users can remove the thing on their end JUST IN CASE the file is deleted from the installed users side. its common courtesy and a procedure that should be implemented here without question or argument.
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  #4  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 10:07
Marco van Herwaarden Marco van Herwaarden is offline
 
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Modifictions are mostly moved to the graveyard because the author wants to to have it deleted, mostly author already removed any files, so in most cases staff can not do anything.
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  #5  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 10:11
GoTTi GoTTi is offline
 
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yes i found this out, why i have this post here: http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showt...66#post1752066

i know modders do request it to be junked, but there are mods ive had installed that were dumped by staff, and i had to contact the modder by pm and wait days to get a response and not always get the info i needed, and it made everything harder. this option i am submitting is one that should be implemented if a mod is placed in the graveyard. if its by request of the author, than you guys should make the author detail the uninstall procedure before the files are dumped.

maybe changing permissions allowing original authors to delete their zip files here, i dunno. however it works, but its something that needs to be done. im sure there are alot more posts and concerns about this kind of issue on here.
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  #6  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 12:02
nexialys
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actually i answered you request for support on this hack.

most of the few maniacs here have all versions of all hacks released here, just wait a little so you can have support on these old graved stuff...

what you suggest was already debated, but due to the fact that all the releases here are applyed of the same copyright, the authors really have to give-over the products to someone else if you want support and followup... making them abandonware would change things, but it's not in the logic of a commercial product.
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  #7  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 13:27
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Paul M Paul M is offline
 
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As Marco said, almost all mods go in the GY for one of two reasons.

1. Author request.
2. Security Issue.

I would say that well over 90% are for reason 1, and in most cases (like the mod you mention), the files have already been deleted. It is not the job of staff to inspect every modification that is moved, see how its installed etc, and then provide uninstall instructions (even if we could).
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  #8  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 17:38
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Chadi Chadi is offline
 
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I agree with Gotti. I've had this issue a few times. It doesn't kill for the author to leave a note why it was moved to the GY and how to uninstall it, while keeping the original downloads there. There is no harm in doing this.
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  #9  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 17:41
nexialys
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the problem is not the note, it's the author's choice to give no note.... you can't control everybody's mind in that topic...
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  #10  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 17:45
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Lynne Lynne is offline
 
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It would be nice if the author would post the uninstall instructions prior to deleting the product, but in every case where I have moved a mod to the graveyard due to the product being deleted, there has been no note left by the author at all.
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  #11  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 18:01
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Chadi Chadi is offline
 
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An easy way to resolve this issue is do the following:

1. Remove author's ability to delete files unless its a security related risk/issue which if I'm not mistaken, usually vb staff removes the file first (?)
2. Force them to leave note upon request to move mod to graveyard, like a fill-out-a-form procedure so to speak and minimum character description (note) required so they can't just type jibberish just to complete the process.
3. Force requests to go into moderator queue for vb staff to validate first (not sure if this is already part of the process)
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  #12  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 18:18
nexialys
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with that much rules, nobody else will take the time to retrieve their hacks from the dB or send them to the graveyard, they will simply abandon them... which is not better because there will be a bunch of abandonned stuff with no support or bugs in the dB.
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  #13  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 18:55
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Paul M Paul M is offline
 
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We are not going to force members to do anything, nor will we remove an authors ability to delete files. vB.org is not an installation/removal service, we are here to host/provide modifications, it is upto authors to provide instructions as they see fit, and installers to make sure they keep records of any such details.
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  #14  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 21:49
GoTTi GoTTi is offline
 
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we dont need to force users to do anything, but as far as deleting mods/attachments of the zip files, it should be soft deleted not perm deleted, that way if these issues do come up a staff member can simply provide the simple uninstall information. it CAN be done.

really getting tired of alot of ideas we throw @ the vb.org site not being taken up on, and the backlash we get from staff members here like we are shmucks for either deleting a zip file or whatever. like i said before, its not about whats up to a installer to keep records of whatever stuff they do, STUFF does happen like hard drive deaths or formats or accidental removal of data, and we cant get that information back. we are the paying members here. we validate our licenses, pay the yearly fees to jelsoft. vbulletin.org is networked with vbulletin.com license system for the reason to keep legit paying members here and have a orderly system, so there is no reason why things cant be changed to assist the paying customers with slight issues like this.
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  #15  
Old 23 Feb 2009, 21:59
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Chadi Chadi is offline
 
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In agreement with you Gotti. Any ideas we CUSTOMERS share get shutdown as if we do not matter. There is mostly a 'holier than thou' attitude here.

I've been treated like crap a few times by certain staff members here. My ideas rejected as if I were a fool. I've been corrected unfairly at least once for something that was not my wrongdoing.

I reported this a while back to VB com, what do they do? Make lame excuses on behalf of some staff as if VB headquarters has nothing to do with vb org or no control over their own networked site.
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