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  #31  
Old 20 Nov 2013, 16:48
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syrus.xl syrus.xl is offline
 
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Hi Joe,

The main problem with vBulletin and its customers from what I have seen is they are "hacked" because of one reason, customers do not update their forums. There is too many people still running on vBulletin versions well below 4.1.x, and wonder why their forums become hacked too easily, or through badly coded modifications. People should get their priorities in order, update vBulletin to the latest version, 4.2.2 is another matter.
  #32  
Old 20 Nov 2013, 19:40
BirdOPrey5's Avatar
BirdOPrey5 BirdOPrey5 is offline
 
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There are some people who don't upgrade, I agree- I am not sure it's the main issue though. Many people do at least patch even if they don't upgrade which is better than nothing. The biggest reason for so many hacked forums these last few months were people who didn't get or didn't read their emails about needing to delete their /install/ directories. We still get tickets most days from people who don't know they were supposed to delete the /install/ directory because they changed their email address a year or two back and never notified us or if they did notify us, never responded back to confirm the change.

It's just unfortunate all around.
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  #33  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 00:38
katie hunter's Avatar
katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by syrus.xl View Post
More and more of the large forums are now switching to XenForo, some of largest in the UK I have noticed are now using Xen. Why?? Because, support from third party coders is dropping off at a staggering rate, so many people are fed up with the way vBulletin is going and I am not surprised. vB5 is just a mess, whether that will ever improve is another matter, and now vBulletin 4.x is just becoming compromised far to often for people to recommend it.

Products are supposed to improve over time, not become worse.
This whole thing is about people joining the Bandwagon. I personal like VB, and comparing it to Xenforo, Xenforo wasn't appealing to me other than liking their SEO aspect, but it will take few years to reach the level of vb 4.x functions, time will tell i guess.

I also don't like the redactor editor they are using. Xenforo is good for those looking for easy, simple software to use. But if i am looking for feature rich forum type, I'd go with VB or IBP but i personally don't like IPB, i like their gallery though!
  #34  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 02:30
Bram H Bram H is offline
 
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It has already reached and surpassed the level of vb 4 functions, and bug free

The redactor editor I agree took some time to get used to but does the job nicely.

Xenforo is indeed good for those look for an easy software to use and the same software runs again bug free on very large boards as well.

Moved our forum to XF in 2011 and haven't had any regrets not even for a single second.

But it hurts to see what happened to vB.
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  #35  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 10:06
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BirdOPrey5 BirdOPrey5 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Bram H View Post
It has already reached and surpassed the level of vb 4 functions, and bug free
Oh really... can you make custom BB codes yet? No?

Can you upload smileys directly from the Admin CP yet? No?

Does it have Blogs or Articles yet? No?

Does it have Multi-quote yet? Kind of? You mean i have to scroll all the way back up again each time I hit reply? So No?

Does it have a way to leave comments when you "Like" something? No?

Does it have 1800 FREE modifications? No? Does it have ANY free modifications anymore? That's a serious question, I haven't looked in a while.

Does everyone need all the features above? Of course not- but there is no way you can say it has surpassed vBulletin in functionality... In stability, yes, perhaps- but simpler software is easier to keep bug free.

Truth is XF hasn't even hit VB 3.x level of features yet, let alone VB 4.x.

It may well surpass VB4 one day, but it hasn't happened yet. I don't hate XenForo mind you, but reality is reality. The only forum software I truly despise is IPB.
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  #36  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 10:15
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mokujin mokujin is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5 View Post
Oh really... can you make custom BB codes yet? No?

Can you upload smileys directly from the Admin CP yet? No?

Does it have Blogs or Articles yet? No?

Does it have Multi-quote yet? Kind of? You mean i have to scroll all the way back up again each time I hit reply? So No?

Does it have a way to leave comments when you "Like" something? No?

Does it have 1800 FREE modifications? No? Does it have ANY free modifications anymore? That's a serious question, I haven't looked in a while.

Does everyone need all the features above? Of course not- but there is no way you can say it has surpassed vBulletin in functionality... In stability, yes, perhaps- but simpler software is easier to keep bug free.

Truth is XF hasn't even hit VB 3.x level of features yet, let alone VB 4.x.

It may well surpass VB4 one day, but it hasn't happened yet. I don't hate XenForo mind you, but reality is reality. The only forum software I truly despise is IPB.
VB has everything, but the fact - vB users are still moving to XF.
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  #37  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 12:36
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BirdOPrey5 BirdOPrey5 is offline
 
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VB is the vast majority of the forum market, it has been and still is- so of course it has the most people to lose, and it is natural more people will move from VB to XF because XF doesn't have that many people to lose- that said, hardly a week goes by I don't see someone asking for an XF to VB importer for Impex- someone even released an unofficial one here.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=283111

300+ downloads... not too shabby.
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  #38  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 14:35
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mokujin mokujin is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5 View Post
300+ downloads... not too shabby.
only 300+ downloads, but >200 are big forums which switched to XF :-)
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  #39  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 15:12
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katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Bram H View Post
It has already reached and surpassed the level of vb 4 functions, and bug free

The redactor editor I agree took some time to get used to but does the job nicely.

Xenforo is indeed good for those look for an easy software to use and the same software runs again bug free on very large boards as well.

Moved our forum to XF in 2011 and haven't had any regrets not even for a single second.

But it hurts to see what happened to vB.
Originally Posted by mokujin View Post
VB has everything, but the fact - vB users are still moving to XF.
That is the kind of bandwagons i am talking about (: It's so bad when people believe that XF is better than VB just for the sake of supporting the previous vb developers who left and what happen during the lawsuit. No body likes litigation anyways.

Mike and Kier are nice developers but it is not going to make me go blind eyes and say XF is better than VB for the sake of supporting Xenforo. Vb has many years of history. The fact that I don't like how IB handles VB will not make me move away from VB. Rather IB needs to change if they want to continue with a good business practice. They're ignorant actually.

Xenforo admin cp is missing so much moderation tools, when it comes to user, user groups, settings, bbcode, there is a whole list of things that is missing.

May be if i like to support something new with new idea, http://meta.discourse.org/ discourse would be something that has potential future for creating a forum base with a new approach.
  #40  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 15:33
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cellarius cellarius is offline
 
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Just because you don't get what people like about xF, it does not mean people are "joining a bandwagon" or blindly following some devs.

Most funny of all is your statement that you won't move away from vB, no matter how ignorant IB behaves, because vB has had a great history. If you're still hoping for a change in business pracitce - well, good luck with that. We've been waiting for five years for that to happen. Maybe you'll think different after another five years.
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  #41  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 17:43
katie hunter's Avatar
katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by cellarius View Post
Just because you don't get what people like about xF, it does not mean people are "joining a bandwagon" or blindly following some devs.

Most funny of all is your statement that you won't move away from vB, no matter how ignorant IB behaves, because vB has had a great history. If you're still hoping for a change in business pracitce - well, good luck with that. We've been waiting for five years for that to happen. Maybe you'll think different after another five years.
Time will tell but currently VB wins over Xenforo for me. I am looking for a good 'Complete' product - feature rich, so i won't abandon VB just because IB is so bad. There are other means that can force IB to change their business practice, more public criticism. No one likes to sell a business and yet instead of receiving good publicity, receive bad criticism. I haven't seen bad criticism about IB that would cause them to worry and start revising themselves, what i saw is criticism toward VB instead of IB more.

You can't put words in my mouth because i never said this. I quotes some of the replies when others say Xenforo is catching up with VB. That is just a plain dream or a lie. It is not about "I don't like what ppl like about Xenforo" I am a member there and i have test it myself and found lack of major features, especially when it comes to the admincp.

It has already reached and surpassed the level of vb 4 functions, and bug free
We know you support Xenforo and you sell mods there, it is ok to support what helps you make money or the fact you don't like IB, but it is not ok to support wrong facts.

And the fact that we want to see for instance the new Ckeditor on vb 4.x , and it is not done yet because it is time consuming, it would be hypocrite of me and others to demand it when Xenforo have completely choose the easy way out and implemented the Redactor editor which is ugly; simple but ugly and not feature rich.

Last edited by katie hunter; 21 Nov 2013 at 17:48.
  #42  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 18:50
Digital Jedi's Avatar
Digital Jedi Digital Jedi is offline
 
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Business practices are like the wind. You never know which direction your favorite company is going to go. That's why I pay little attention to it. I look at the product. If they're not manufacturing their line with souls of orphan babies, I'm probably not going to care how unintellegent they are. It's not like they're going to pay much attention to me.

Where you can make some headway is on the user to developer level. You express your needs reasonably to the development staff (or their equivalent, depending on the company we're talking about) and you can sometimes take advantage of changing winds. Consider the fact that the changes with vBulletin, the one's you don't like, were sudden and unexpected. No reason it can't, and most likely will, change again.

Consider, too, that these types of discussions seem to want to place vBulletin and xenForo owners in two distinct categories, when they don't have to be. I happen to own licences for both. I like both. I use both. I am starting to develop for both. I don't care if the companies, or the fans, want to quibble. Because leaning one way or the other cheats me of the user experience gained from each.
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  #43  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 19:01
katie hunter's Avatar
katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Digital Jedi View Post
Business practices are like the wind. You never know which direction your favorite company is going to go. That's why I pay little attention to it. I look at the product. If they're not manufacturing their line with souls of orphan babies, I'm probably not going to care how unintellegent they are. It's not like they're going to pay much attention to me.

Where you can make some headway is on the user to developer level. You express your needs reasonably to the development staff (or their equivalent, depending on the company we're talking about) and you can sometimes take advantage of changing winds. Consider the fact that the changes with vBulletin, the one's you don't like, were sudden and unexpected. No reason it can't, and most likely will, change again.

Consider, too, that these types of discussions seem to want to place vBulletin and xenForo owners in two distinct categories, when they don't have to be. I happen to own licences for both. I like both. I use both. I am starting to develop for both. I don't care if the companies, or the fans, want to quibble. Because leaning one way or the other cheats me of the user experience gained from each.
That is exactly right (: and what Mike referred to below.

Originally Posted by TheLastSuperman View Post
I wonder if Chevrolet type forums get discussions like this comparing Chevy to Ford?

Long story short the situation is "iffy" at the moment... many coders went to Xen but because their site welcomes them, has an area for paid mods and such. Was this because it lacked so many vBulletin features as Katie put it ever so lightly or was it to help improve the number of add-ons by doing so in-turn helping sell the base product? Heck I don't know and unless Kier or someone else from xen specifically stated so no sense drawing conclusions but we can see that many like that system and that's from the last time I was on the site which was well over a year ago, by now I would surmise things are much better at the xenforo site especially since the lawsuit was dropped/settled.

Does it have the same number of add-ons vBulletin 4 does? No but give it time, how the current setup is seems to work well and is sure to improve. When/If we finally implement something like that here though you'll see many coders return (not an official statement or hint although it has been discussed many times over, possibility mind you = maybe ).

Although to be fair and flat out honest, if you code well and have a good business structure and work ethic then running off to xenforo just because it seems to welcome coders with open arms would have been silly - I've seen many say "I'm no longer coding for vB only Xenforo" and that's just stupid to say and do in my opinion - if you have talent and are in it to make money (why you argued you ran to xen in the first place i.e. paid mod area/selling them there etc) then why not code for both? Some people contradict themselves so much it makes me laugh more than some of you at statements by members here who you should clearly know do not understand coding at all.

Edit: Moved to community lounge, seemed out of place being in just vB5 general discussions .
  #44  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 20:31
cellarius's Avatar
cellarius cellarius is offline
 
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What people seem to forget is what a tiny fraction of IB's business vB is. They simply don't care, and they have proven that over several years now. Where people muster their optimism now that the dev team is down to three (!), is beyond me. Now, of course, people will say that xF is only two devs. Yes. But those two devs were able to come up with a very good forum software, and, since that's up to taste, with very good code quality and very low bug count. I will not go into details what vB's legion of coders came up with since 2009.
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  #45  
Old 21 Nov 2013, 22:39
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katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
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Xenforo is new and based half on Zend framework, modified version + Xenforo. Vb from what i know is not based on a pre-made framework but done from scratch.

It is not about optimism, everything needs optimism anyways but if IB received a bad buzz through business field because of VB and how they handle it, this will affect the remaining of their other businesses and they will have to revise their plans. No one wants to do business with company which disregard customers demands and voices, that is how things are. Money comes with customer satisfaction and good opportunities.

There isn't enough buzz about IB, and how they handle Vb, it is not even in the main stream media. Members have always focused more on VB and complaining toward VB but never changed their direction to complain and make topics about IB and see who manages VB from the inside and so on.
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