Register Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 30 Oct 2013, 22:24
cellarius's Avatar
cellarius cellarius is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Real name: Sven
Originally Posted by katie hunter View Post
I never said free in my thread, in fact the example i pointed out, the coder is selling his gallery for 40 USD on Xenforo. It is selfish when many of these coders do sell their plugin and code it only for Xenforo, they can do the same on VB and sell it and offer pro vs lite.

But then they are taking sides because of this whole drama Xenforo vs IB and we are in the middle.

They are being selfish because they have took a stance to support only Xenforo and have left, disregarded all the happy customers/ members from vb who made them popular and noticeable in the first place, through plugin votes, plugin of the month and so on.



Think about it ^ your signature.
It is very obvious that you never coded an addon for vB, that you never coded an addon for xenforo, and that you have no idea just in what abominable way IB gave a ++++ing damn about addon coders when vB4 was released. And did the same when vB5 was released. Same about style designers.

You make all this out to be some vB - xF battle. It is not. Many coders did not leave because they wanted to take sides, but because vB litteraly drove them away. Also, there are many who did not leave for xF, but for IPB.

Anyway, when you buy an addon you buy what you get, plus a maybe somewhat reasonable time of support. You don't buy llifetime support, nor do you buy a guarantee of further development. Some seem to think that all that can be had for a few bucks, but that's just naive. This is not about fair or unfair, but about real life. Coders who life off their work need to make a living, and it is quite obvious that vB has no future. That's why they leave.

Anyway, what's wrong with my signature? It states what is the case, and I think it's just honest to tell people what they can expect. I gave no promises to anyone, and I gave away my work for free. Because I loved the software, and I loved the community. Nothing of both is left, IB ruined it for pretty much everyone. As far as I know, my addons still work for vB4, and if you think there will be much future development of that branch by IB, you're even more naive than I thought. If you don't like that I decided not to do develop them further, for reasons that are none of your business, I just couldn't care less.
__________________
Please note that there will be no further updates to my addons, especially they will not be upgraded for vB5. I'm leaving vB, since IB choose to go the banana-way yet again.

http://www.roma-antiqua.de
  #17  
Old 30 Oct 2013, 22:40
vbresults vbresults is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
This topic is symptomatic of the entitlement mentality here. Coders don't owe you anything. Most downloaders don't go around rating plugins they don't use. If you leave a review or rating on a plugin, it's because you already took or benefited from their work first, not the other way around.

At the very least, Mike & Kier make things as developer-friendly as they can like allowing commercial add-ons, coming down on people that harass developers over pricing when they've actually contributed nothing to the developer after taking their work, and providing a clean, fun platform to code on.

A lot of the XF resource users have the same entitlement mentality but Mike & Kier aren't giving developers the finger, unlike IB and by extension vB.org, so I don't blame a lot of coders for moving over and not dealing with vB anymore.

You aren't a customer until you actually buy the commercial plugin from the developer. People parade around like they've already bought every plugin they make demands for and complain about on vB.org.

In reality, barring /maybe/ DBTech, <1% of downloaders actually do. Where do I get these numbers? Experience & ask any developer here. Funnier, many who donate will rather donate what's convenient as an alibi instead of getting commercial plugins.

"Take your pennies, peasant"

In an almost surreal way, about half will get angry the moment you mention a commercial plugin, or even, god forbid, a copyright link, like you're their slave laborer and the master says you don't work for pay *whiplash*.

These same people complain about the 100 copyright links in the footer, and yeah I get that. Look at how bad it makes your footer look and take note of each link -- it's a lot, isn't it?

Now, excluding DBTech, recount how you actually didn't pay for any of those plugins. Someone spent hours of their time to make each one for you -- countless hours together. Now, think about all the tired faces of your slave laborers who work without pay.

That said, we have two conflicting viewpoints -- let's be objective. IB isn't going to suddenly change, and XF developers certainly aren't going to start coming back to vB. Time tells no lies.

Last edited by vbresults; 30 Oct 2013 at 23:24. Reason: *
  #18  
Old 31 Oct 2013, 00:45
katie hunter's Avatar
katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Well, i see many have been saying Vbulletin died with vb 5.x. I really don't know what sort of illusion is this and what is your aim trying to portray this, seeing that vb 4.x is great and way better than Xenforo.

Others are jumping off the boat, because of this entire Xenforo vs IB saga, but honestly, you forget one thing, it is us customers who buy your addon. I've seen many of the coders who have moved to Xenforo, kept encouraging their vb customers to migrate to Xenforo in order to sell their addon there.

You might not like the subject because it is touching your $$ but it is true that you've decided to abandon vb customers and those who gave you fame in the first place.

Many don't like the way IB runs thing and how VB do not listen to many of the requested features, but that doesn't mean the product is bad because vb 4.x is great, vb 5.x needs at least 2 years of development, it is currently in beta stage, never gold yet in my own eyes.

If i am going to compare vb 4.x with Xenforo, definitely vb 4.x wins in term of features and stability.

If i am going to compare vb 5.x with Xenforo, XF wins over because it is much more faster, Seo friendly and easy to use but not feature rich. Xenforo doesn't even have basic profile gallery, let alone they are using an Editor http://imperavi.com/redactor/, that isn't as nice as the CKeditor http://ckeditor.com/demo#standard

Last edited by katie hunter; 31 Oct 2013 at 01:09.
  #19  
Old 31 Oct 2013, 02:04
New Joe's Avatar
New Joe New Joe is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
How much of the 'features' are 'really' the necessary with VB though?
I find myself as an admin and owner I do think they are necessary, but as for the members, the ones who make a Forum actually work then maybe not so much.

There are still a lot of free resources for Xenforo, and a lot of the paid ones aren't that expensive.
When a huge Forum like digitalpoint moved over to Xenforo this was the time I started looking more into it, yes he's actually a coder but there's not a huge make over of modifications on his site for Xenforo

I will move over to it one day, it's not the lack of features which are stopping me, more so the actual import from vB to Xenforo and the messing around with things like VBSEO i have installed.
  #20  
Old 31 Oct 2013, 07:22
cellarius's Avatar
cellarius cellarius is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Real name: Sven
Originally Posted by katie hunter View Post
If i am going to compare vb 4.x with Xenforo, definitely vb 4.x wins in term of features and stability.
Well - vB4 has a lot of features some may call bloat - it comes with a decade of history. And now, after 3 years of bugfixing and discontinuity (exactly what's driving coders mad), it is in a usable state (shining espacially since, of course, it wins every comparision to vB5 - which really says not much about vB4, but all about vB5).

But calling vB4 more stable than xF just made me laugh real hard. It is really obvious that you have no idea about stability or code quality. That's not a problem, mind you - but then you should be a tad more cautious about such judgements.
__________________
Please note that there will be no further updates to my addons, especially they will not be upgraded for vB5. I'm leaving vB, since IB choose to go the banana-way yet again.

http://www.roma-antiqua.de
  #21  
Old 31 Oct 2013, 11:40
katie hunter's Avatar
katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
I've tested Xenforo and i know i didn't like it, especially the admin cp features. It is missing so many default vb features.

I am not going to praise a product which needs at least 2 - 3 years of development to feel somewhat complete. That is my stance on Xenforo forum.
  #22  
Old 31 Oct 2013, 15:24
borbole's Avatar
borbole borbole is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Originally Posted by katie hunter View Post
That is my stance on Xenforo forum.
Like that is your stance on xenforo forum, it is the stance of many coders on vb who left it for xenforo or Ipb. So maybe you should respect their stance/decision and not complain that they don''t come back to vb so they can acomodate you.
__________________
My mods.
  #23  
Old 31 Oct 2013, 16:16
TheLastSuperman's Avatar
TheLastSuperman TheLastSuperman is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real name: Michael Miller Jr
I wonder if Chevrolet type forums get discussions like this comparing Chevy to Ford?

Long story short the situation is "iffy" at the moment... many coders went to Xen but because their site welcomes them, has an area for paid mods and such. Was this because it lacked so many vBulletin features as Katie put it ever so lightly or was it to help improve the number of add-ons by doing so in-turn helping sell the base product? Heck I don't know and unless Kier or someone else from xen specifically stated so no sense drawing conclusions but we can see that many like that system and that's from the last time I was on the site which was well over a year ago, by now I would surmise things are much better at the xenforo site especially since the lawsuit was dropped/settled.

Does it have the same number of add-ons vBulletin 4 does? No but give it time, how the current setup is seems to work well and is sure to improve. When/If we finally implement something like that here though you'll see many coders return (not an official statement or hint although it has been discussed many times over, possibility mind you = maybe ).

Although to be fair and flat out honest, if you code well and have a good business structure and work ethic then running off to xenforo just because it seems to welcome coders with open arms would have been silly - I've seen many say "I'm no longer coding for vB only Xenforo" and that's just stupid to say and do in my opinion - if you have talent and are in it to make money (why you argued you ran to xen in the first place i.e. paid mod area/selling them there etc) then why not code for both? Some people contradict themselves so much it makes me laugh more than some of you at statements by members here who you should clearly know do not understand coding at all.

Edit: Moved to community lounge, seemed out of place being in just vB5 general discussions .
__________________
Daddy Does Dios and Figs!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/thelastsuperman

Search - Use the search feature to find similar issues/answers.
Information - Include screenshots, copy/pasted error codes, url etc.
Fixed - Please return to your thread/post and let us know how it was fixed!
Thanks - For participating! Click the "Like" on a post if someone helped you!
  #24  
Old 31 Oct 2013, 20:57
skol skol is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Originally Posted by cellarius View Post
It is very obvious that you never coded an addon for vB, that you never coded an addon for xenforo, and that you have no idea just in what abominable way IB gave a ++++ing damn about addon coders when vB4 was released. And did the same when vB5 was released. Same about style designers.

You make all this out to be some vB - xF battle. It is not. Many coders did not leave because they wanted to take sides, but because vB litteraly drove them away. Also, there are many who did not leave for xF, but for IPB.

Anyway, when you buy an addon you buy what you get, plus a maybe somewhat reasonable time of support. You don't buy llifetime support, nor do you buy a guarantee of further development. Some seem to think that all that can be had for a few bucks, but that's just naive. This is not about fair or unfair, but about real life. Coders who life off their work need to make a living, and it is quite obvious that vB has no future. That's why they leave.

Anyway, what's wrong with my signature? It states what is the case, and I think it's just honest to tell people what they can expect. I gave no promises to anyone, and I gave away my work for free. Because I loved the software, and I loved the community. Nothing of both is left, IB ruined it for pretty much everyone. As far as I know, my addons still work for vB4, and if you think there will be much future development of that branch by IB, you're even more naive than I thought. If you don't like that I decided not to do develop them further, for reasons that are none of your business, I just couldn't care less.
But yet you're still here and posting!!Why not just move on? Seeing you have made your intentions clear!
  #25  
Old 01 Nov 2013, 09:22
cellarius's Avatar
cellarius cellarius is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Real name: Sven
I'm still a license holder, I still support my addons when the need arises, and I still help out users in the vB4 section.

That I think vB5 is utter crap and I won't touch it with a stick does not mean I can't do that anymore, does it? And that I do that, does - the other way round - not mean I can't say what I think of vB5.

My consequence was to leave the vB5 alpha/beta testing team once it was clear that IB would pull the same stunt they did with vB4 just once again.
__________________
Please note that there will be no further updates to my addons, especially they will not be upgraded for vB5. I'm leaving vB, since IB choose to go the banana-way yet again.

http://www.roma-antiqua.de
  #26  
Old 01 Nov 2013, 11:07
joeychgo's Avatar
joeychgo joeychgo is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Real name: Joey
Originally Posted by cellarius View Post
I'm still a license holder, I still support my addons when the need arises, and I still help out users in the vB4 section.

That I think vB5 is utter crap and I won't touch it with a stick does not mean I can't do that anymore, does it?

No, in fact, its laudable and I, for one, appreciate it.
__________________
Lincoln vs Cadillac Forums -
  #27  
Old 01 Nov 2013, 22:25
katie hunter's Avatar
katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
The goal of this thread really is not to take sides between VBulletin and Xenforo but to support both products.

This thread was intended to reveal the cloudy truth. Many VB customers vent their anger at vb (because of 5.x or lack of listening to customers' demands), by supporting Xenforo and that is part of the big reality but they haven't realized that vb 4.x is still there and can improve a lot until vb 5.x becomes more complete of a product. IB wants $$, so they will do anything to deliver a good product.

Now for Xenforo, I don't see how possibly a team of 2-3 developers will be able to reach VB level of default features so soon, that is why they will need at least take 2-3 years of development,it is far from complete. For ex they took a short cut toward the editor features by not implementing CKeditor, that is time consuming, something they won't spend time on because they don't have the capability, they don't have that many developers.

This is all about time and competition and for vb 5.x to become more complete, they will need 2-3 years, and same goes for Xenforo.

But VB has a long history and we customers should not be put in a situation where we have to decide which team should we support and join because i am one of many refusing to join the bandwagon.

Mike has pointed out the truth:

I've seen many say "I'm no longer coding for vB only Xenforo" and that's just stupid to say and do in my opinion - if you have talent and are in it to make money (why you argued you ran to xen in the first place i.e. paid mod area/selling them there etc) then why not code for both?
  #28  
Old 01 Nov 2013, 22:50
nhawk nhawk is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
A bit off topic, but implementing CKeditor would take more than time, it would take money too. CKeditor is not free in the usage context of vBulletin or XenForo. An OEM license is well over $1000.00.
  #29  
Old 20 Nov 2013, 11:14
syrus.xl's Avatar
syrus.xl syrus.xl is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
More and more of the large forums are now switching to XenForo, some of largest in the UK I have noticed are now using Xen. Why?? Because, support from third party coders is dropping off at a staggering rate, so many people are fed up with the way vBulletin is going and I am not surprised. vB5 is just a mess, whether that will ever improve is another matter, and now vBulletin 4.x is just becoming compromised far to often for people to recommend it.

Products are supposed to improve over time, not become worse.
  #30  
Old 20 Nov 2013, 15:00
BirdOPrey5's Avatar
BirdOPrey5 BirdOPrey5 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Real name: Joe D.
"far too often" is still just the 1 major compromise uncovered earlier this year. There was no new exploit causing this latest round of bad PR- not with the vBulletin software anyway. Unfortunately people see "hacked" and "vBulletin" in the same sentence and it is easy to come to the same conclusion.
__________________
-Joe
Former vb.org Moderator. Retired.

@BirdOPrey5 | All Things BOP5 | Joe's Ultimate Off Topic
Note - I no longer making new VB mods, sorry.
Closed Thread



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:41.

Layout Options | Width: Wide Color: