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  #46  
Old 16 Jul 2014, 07:35
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TheLastSuperman TheLastSuperman is offline
 
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I'm still baffled as to why it was removed Paul it just baffles me... to have vBulletin, to have a pre-sales area on here even where people ask about mods before purchase - all the times we've steered them in a direction or told them it could be done, mods and methods that made them want to purchase and now that has simply been removed? Remove the system remove an increase in sales through modding. Why is it I see more migrating from the Cloud everyday saying it could not give them what they wanted (customization) so that is a clue if anything.

I just don't see the logic in it, so they paid you to remove what brought them more sales it just does not compute and I'm a fanboy, on the vBulletin bandwagon even but I still can't see it, I hate to say it.
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  #47  
Old 16 Jul 2014, 10:43
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BirdOPrey5 BirdOPrey5 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Ramsesx View Post
Most are just disappointed long year customers and no haters.
And as long as you blame the customers in the first line instead of resolving all the damages created by IB there will be no change for a better.
There are both disappointed customers and vicious haters. I'm not blaming the customers but it is almost a full time job watching for lies being posted from the haters- two wrongs do not make a right- they seem to think it does.

Originally Posted by BigJimTheLug View Post
Alright, I have an issue with that. I have a licensed vbulletin, but the email that I use here at vb.org is not recognized at vbulletin.com.

How can I fix this?
Log into your Member's Area at https://members.vbulletin.com and add your vBulletin.org email address to the Priority Forum Support list- check what you have listed there- and double check your vbulletin.com account email matches exactly. If you still have trouble open a support ticket.

Originally Posted by BigJimTheLug View Post
So when v5 was released to the public for sales, was the public informed that v5 was a radical departure from previous editions of vbulletin software?
Certainly in the forums and tickets when people inquired about VB5 I (and most other staff I could see) would warn people VB5 was a very big change from VB4, the biggest change from any version of VB before, and we suggested they try the demo first before deciding to upgrade their forums. I still suggest this to people inquiring about VB5.

Also, did the software team give any rationale behind the development and change of vbulletin to v5? What was vbulletin trying to accomplish with the development of v5?
A more modern, more social forum experience.

Originally Posted by TheLastSuperman View Post
I'm still baffled as to why it was removed Paul it just baffles me... to have vBulletin, to have a pre-sales area on here even where people ask about mods before purchase - all the times we've steered them in a direction or told them it could be done, mods and methods that made them want to purchase and now that has simply been removed? Remove the system remove an increase in sales through modding. Why is it I see more migrating from the Cloud everyday saying it could not give them what they wanted (customization) so that is a clue if anything.

I just don't see the logic in it, so they paid you to remove what brought them more sales it just does not compute and I'm a fanboy, on the vBulletin bandwagon even but I still can't see it, I hate to say it.
Plugins have a downside... They make overall system less safe- with a plugin system if someone gets Admin access to the forum they more or less have access to the whole hosting account as they can create a plugin to give them disk access. With the VB5 extension system a hacked Admin account would not give disk access.

Also plugins only really work for the desktop version. With ForumRunner, Tapatalk, and the VB Mobile Suite plugins cause problems- some are active, some are not- some will cause errors on this mobile platforms.

The idea of doing everything via extensions is a clean one and one that would prevent such problems introduced by plugins- but what we got was a system simply not capable of allowing all the mods we were used to.

If they could redo the extensions system in some way that allowed total control I'd be for it, but realistically a plugin system would be easier to implement.
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  #48  
Old 16 Jul 2014, 11:04
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joeychgo joeychgo is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5 View Post
There are both disappointed customers and vicious haters. I'm not blaming the customers but it is almost a full time job watching for lies being posted from the haters- two wrongs do not make a right- they seem to think it does.
Agreed - but keep one thing in mind.. Most of those 'haters' started as disappointed customers.

Its my belief that the majority of mod creators didn't leave because of the lack of a plugin system. That may have contributed, but I don't think that was the primary reason.

Things have happened incrementally over time. IB taking over, releasing vb4 too early, losing Mike & Kier, XF launched, The lawsuit, vb4 plans being discarded, vb5 being released way too early, cutbacks on staff..

All of these things cost more and more customers as time went on many of whom migrated to XF or IPB. And its those customers that created mods and used mods.

Its ironic. One of the reasons IB bought vBulletin was so they could control the software their owned sites operate on, yet none of them have upgraded to vb5 my knowledge. Almost all run on vb 3x.

IMO, its a terrible shame, and how top management that controls vB still works for the company is amazing to me. Personally, I think vB can still be saved, but it seems nobody that makes decisions wants to hear it. They seem to be in some kind of denial that things are as bad as they are.
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  #49  
Old 16 Jul 2014, 11:47
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ozzy47 ozzy47 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5 View Post



Plugins have a downside... They make overall system less safe- with a plugin system if someone gets Admin access to the forum they more or less have access to the whole hosting account as they can create a plugin to give them disk access. With the VB5 extension system a hacked Admin account would not give disk access.

Also plugins only really work for the desktop version. With ForumRunner, Tapatalk, and the VB Mobile Suite plugins cause problems- some are active, some are not- some will cause errors on this mobile platforms.

The idea of doing everything via extensions is a clean one and one that would prevent such problems introduced by plugins- but what we got was a system simply not capable of allowing all the mods we were used to.

If they could redo the extensions system in some way that allowed total control I'd be for it, but realistically a plugin system would be easier to implement.
I think the access issue could be easily resolved by not running the code from within the ACP but make it so you need something like this:


Block Disabled:      (Update License Status)  
Suspended or Unlicensed Members Cannot View Code.

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  #50  
Old 16 Jul 2014, 19:18
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TheLastSuperman TheLastSuperman is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5 View Post
Plugins have a downside... They make overall system less safe- with a plugin system if someone gets Admin access to the forum they more or less have access to the whole hosting account as they can create a plugin to give them disk access. With the VB5 extension system a hacked Admin account would not give disk access.

Also plugins only really work for the desktop version. With ForumRunner, Tapatalk, and the VB Mobile Suite plugins cause problems- some are active, some are not- some will cause errors on this mobile platforms.

The idea of doing everything via extensions is a clean one and one that would prevent such problems introduced by plugins- but what we got was a system simply not capable of allowing all the mods we were used to.

If they could redo the extensions system in some way that allowed total control I'd be for it, but realistically a plugin system would be easier to implement.
Well I've fixed quite a few hacked forums in my time and truth be told if I think back and honestly think hard... yup it was more often vulnerabilities in vBulletin itself then it was a plugin vulnerability. I just don't think saying you're safer without them is the best thing to do or way to think... of course you're safe on a 100% default board without any customizations UNTIL an exploit is found within vBulletin itself then it's another patch release.

If you google "Powered by vBulletin" I'm pretty sure if you spent a few hours (anyone for that matter) and actually clicked on the links you would find waaaaaaay more customized sites than default... if I can build a business based entirely on vBulletin customization and make enough money to support a wife, three kids, a new car and a house payment then I dare say YES they're required (since that many people are evidently looking to customize it beyond the default appearance and functionality) and the ability to further customize vBulletin should always be there, removing that system was a mistake - someone should address this issue with management repeatedly until they finally open their eyes imo, pass it up the chain of command but do it with some gusto .
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  #51  
Old 16 Jul 2014, 19:35
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Originally Posted by joeychgo View Post
Its ironic. One of the reasons IB bought vBulletin was so they could control the software their owned sites operate on
If that was the reason then they never really did this.

All the large divisions within IB that run vBulletin have their own full time developers, and pretty much run their own heavily modified version(s). They dont really have any contact with VBS and I dont see that it would make much difference to them who actually owned vB itself.
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  #52  
Old 16 Jul 2014, 19:42
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TheLastSuperman TheLastSuperman is offline
 
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^ Now that Paul mentions it, if you all recall a majority of the IB sites at the time they purchased vBulletin (the larger boards) were running and still run vBulletin 3 instead of 4 or 5.
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  #53  
Old 17 Jul 2014, 01:13
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Lol so much for worrying about the plugin system, http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=313021
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  #54  
Old 17 Jul 2014, 04:04
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Zachery Zachery is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ozzy47 View Post
Lol so much for worrying about the plugin system, http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=313021
Security issues happen, regardless of who codes what.

The plugin system is a legit nightmare when someone figures out how to take advantage of it.
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  #55  
Old 17 Jul 2014, 06:02
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Brandon Sheley Brandon Sheley is offline
 
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I've actually started visiting TAZ again since they updated their forum software. I think they made the right choice.
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  #56  
Old 17 Jul 2014, 12:01
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I doubt anyone left TAZ because it ran on vB3.
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  #57  
Old 17 Jul 2014, 18:11
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Brandon Sheley Brandon Sheley is offline
 
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Originally Posted by joeychgo View Post
IMO, its a terrible shame, and how top management that controls vB still works for the company is amazing to me. Personally, I think vB can still be saved, but it seems nobody that makes decisions wants to hear it. They seem to be in some kind of denial that things are as bad as they are.
I 100% agree and it's something the costumers have been saying for years now.
Originally Posted by Paul M View Post
I doubt anyone left TAZ because it ran on vB3.
I never said they did.. But it's a lot more welcoming and actually pleasant to use since they upgraded.
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  #58  
Old 18 Jul 2014, 20:25
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Originally Posted by Zachery View Post
Security issues happen, regardless of who codes what.
With vb 5 it seems like security issues are occurring at an alarming rate.

Whereas xenforo on the other hand, has never had a security issue during all its years of existance. That speaks volumes.
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  #59  
Old 18 Jul 2014, 21:16
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Well its "years of existance" have not been that many yet.

People used to say exactly the same about Linux v Windows.
As it grows and becomes widely knowm, its only a matter of time before the hackers start to target it.
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  #60  
Old 19 Jul 2014, 11:54
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joeychgo joeychgo is offline
 
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Originally Posted by borbole View Post
Whereas xenforo on the other hand, has never had a security issue during all its years of existance. That speaks volumes.

It will... With certainty. Its just a matter of time. As Paul said. Look at apple. Macs used to have the reputation of being virus proof, when it was just that hackers preferred to hit windows based machines as they are 95% of the market. Its nothing against Xenforo, its just the nature of things.
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