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  #46  
Old 26 Oct 2013, 15:39
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Originally Posted by cellarius View Post
Some are riding pretty high horses, here. It is all fine and dandy that you have lots of experience and know how to evaluate software and know all the admin forums where you can get independent opinions.

Guess what? Many of IB's potential customers are not. They see all the crap about market leader and worlds leading community software, with hundreds of new features promised. They may even surf around and find many big forums running vB. That may be vB4 or even vB3, but they see: Hey, that has to be reliable software. Then they may even surf the vbulletin website. But guess what? All the critical feedback is hidden away from them. They may even know that bugs are quite normal in software, but they are probably not used to being sold crap in a state that vB5 was in (and in many ways still is).
That link I posted is the Google search results to the term "vbulletin 5 connect reviews." And that's without quotes. The first third-party review on page 1 is a visible one star review. The next result is "vBulletin is dead." The third is "vBulletin 5 sucks". While I disagree with those points as they are stated, the fact is that basic, fundamental research is nothing new, difficult or special. This is basic consumerism.


Are they to blame in part for not researching even more? Maybe. But what is sure as hell is that IB has sold half baked software not once, but twice. I really don't get how you guys really can be of the opinion that this mess is in the first place the fault of the customer. Said customer has every right to state his opinion, and if they want to do so in a place where it is not hidden away from potential new customers, then this is more than understandable. If that is more than you can bear, I suggest you just skip such threads (given the title of this thread pretty much gives away its content, doesn't it?)
And other customers have the right to be tired of all the complaining. Especially when we either looked into vB5 and decided it wasn't ready for prime time, or conversely, we're running vB5 and it meets our standards for forum software. We get it, already. And as I pointed out above, the reviews are hardly hidden from someone willing to make the most basic gasp of an effort. If someone isn't expecting dissenting opinions from consumers of the opposite opinion, on one of the products official sites, then maybe this internet thing isn't for them.

--------------- Added 26 Oct 2013 at 15:48 ---------------

Originally Posted by englishtalk View Post
Is this what you'll write on IB/VB's tombstone after they've gone bankrupt? Or maybe "technically they were right and their customers were wrong!"

People were happy with their previous products, are happy with their competitors products, aren't happy with their current product. Does the conversation really have to be more nuanced than that?
That slices a non-contextual portion of my post, and my overall comments, in favor of hyperbole. What I said was, by now, the surprised, disgruntled threads are wearing a bit thin considering the amount of time that's passed, the number of these threads that already exist, and the fact that anyone with a address bar on their browser could have avoided their own hassles.
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  #47  
Old 26 Oct 2013, 15:55
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Max Taxable Max Taxable is offline
 
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Originally Posted by cellarius View Post
Some are riding pretty high horses, here. It is all fine and dandy that you have lots of experience and know how to evaluate software and know all the admin forums where you can get independent opinions.

Guess what? Many of IB's potential customers are not. They see all the crap about market leader and worlds leading community software, with hundreds of new features promised. They may even surf around and find many big forums running vB. That may be vB4 or even vB3, but they see: Hey, that has to be reliable software. Then they may even surf the vbulletin website. But guess what? All the critical feedback is hidden away from them. They may even know that bugs are quite normal in software, but they are probably not used to being sold crap in a state that vB5 was in (and in many ways still is).

Are they to blame in part for not researching even more? Maybe. But what is sure as hell is that IB has sold half baked software not once, but twice. I really don't get how you guys really can be of the opinion that this mess is in the first place the fault of the customer. Said customer has every right to state his opinion, and if they want to do so in a place where it is not hidden away from potential new customers, then this is more than understandable. If that is more than you can bear, I suggest you just skip such threads (given the title of this thread pretty much gives away its content, doesn't it?)
Very good points.

And point of note I definitely agree with the thread title. They will have to pry my old school, vB 3.8.7 out of me cold, dead hands.
  #48  
Old 27 Oct 2013, 00:14
englishtalk englishtalk is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Digital Jedi View Post

That slices a non-contextual portion of my post, and my overall comments, in favor of hyperbole. What I said was, by now, the surprised, disgruntled threads are wearing a bit thin considering the amount of time that's passed, the number of these threads that already exist, and the fact that anyone with a address bar on their browser could have avoided their own hassles.
Perhaps I agree that the surprise shown is wearing thin but that should have nothing to do with legitimate disgruntle. If something isn't fit for purpose, the money should be refunded. Reviews/experience/anything doesn't negate that.
  #49  
Old 27 Oct 2013, 01:01
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Originally Posted by englishtalk View Post
Perhaps I agree that the surprise shown is wearing thin but that should have nothing to do with legitimate disgruntle. If something isn't fit for purpose, the money should be refunded. Reviews/experience/anything doesn't negate that.
You paid for the download. There is no way for them to collect that back. So what you're essentially saying is, you want the software license for free.

You got it, you own it, you are a vBulletin license holder and you can use version 3, version 4 or version 5. If 5 is really this objectionable to you, why not try the others?
  #50  
Old 27 Oct 2013, 01:32
englishtalk englishtalk is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Max Taxable View Post
You paid for the download. There is no way for them to collect that back. So what you're essentially saying is, you want the software license for free.

You got it, you own it, you are a vBulletin license holder and you can use version 3, version 4 or version 5. If 5 is really this objectionable to you, why not try the others?
Show me an easy way to go back to 4.2.2 without losing posts and I'll do it immediately. If not, the previous licenses don't help me.
  #51  
Old 27 Oct 2013, 01:37
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Originally Posted by englishtalk View Post
Show me an easy way to go back to 4.2.2 without losing posts and I'll do it immediately. If not, the previous licenses don't help me.
Take a sql of your database and import it to the new database.

You're far better off with v3.8.8 IMO.
  #52  
Old 27 Oct 2013, 01:46
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ozzy47 ozzy47 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Max Taxable View Post
Take a sql of your database and import it to the new database.

You're far better off with v3.8.8 IMO.
The structures are completely different.....this isn't going to be possible.

I have heard some people say there is paid services out there that can do it, and IIRC there were some people reporting converting vB5 to some other forum software then going from that to vB4
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  #53  
Old 27 Oct 2013, 02:00
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"Look before you leap" seems to be operative here.
  #54  
Old 27 Oct 2013, 03:43
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Originally Posted by englishtalk View Post
Perhaps I agree that the surprise shown is wearing thin but that should have nothing to do with legitimate disgruntle. If something isn't fit for purpose, the money should be refunded. Reviews/experience/anything doesn't negate that.
And we'll take the word of the consumer that they've fully uninstalled the software from any and all websites and have deleted their copy, correct? How many days do you get to return it? Virtually no ordered products have an open ended return policy. You have so much time to return them to the manufacturer. How long do you get to run a board before you've decided you don't like it? Do you go back to one of your previous license statuses?

Software downloads are a tricky thing to ask refunds for, considering you don't have a tangible product to return to the manufacturer. Both Apple and MicroSoft have a software return policy that requires you uninstall the product from any computer. But I imagine there are ways to enforce that, and in those cases you have a disc you can return. Some manufacturers allow return of their software only if the package has not been opened. On the other hand, what you purchased form vB was a license, not a tangible, returnable product. What you're asking for, I don't think there's a business model for it.
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  #55  
Old 28 Oct 2013, 07:39
englishtalk englishtalk is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Digital Jedi View Post
And we'll take the word of the consumer that they've fully uninstalled the software from any and all websites and have deleted their copy, correct?
I think you're dodging the context here, which is pretty unilateral discontent with Vbulletin. If something doesn't change, like refunds to all downloads, it'll be the end of vb. In any case, they're probably finished - there are so many new startups now that'll take the market.
  #56  
Old 28 Oct 2013, 08:14
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craigvm craigvm is offline
 
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just a warning if vbulletin dont like what you say about there software they will stop you from posting on vbulletin.com. i can no longer post on there after saying something bad about there release
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  #57  
Old 28 Oct 2013, 16:02
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Originally Posted by englishtalk View Post
I think you're dodging the context here, which is pretty unilateral discontent with Vbulletin. If something doesn't change, like refunds to all downloads, it'll be the end of vb. In any case, they're probably finished - there are so many new startups now that'll take the market.
Not at all. I'm saying that you're asking one company to invoke a standard that has no precedence, or really good way to do. Based on you're own perception of discontent. Be wary of the echo chamber. A bunch of people getting on the same website(s) about the same subject over and over again, is hardly an accurate measure to go by.


Originally Posted by craigvm View Post
just a warning if vbulletin dont like what you say about there software they will stop you from posting on vbulletin.com. i can no longer post on there after saying something bad about there release
If you're not allowed to say something they don't like, why is your thread still there? You're not listed as banned member.
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  #58  
Old 28 Oct 2013, 16:51
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i can post on there again now but funny how my posts was moderated and i could`nt start a new thread in the support forums after slagging vb off dont you think
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  #59  
Old 28 Oct 2013, 16:56
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cellarius cellarius is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Digital Jedi View Post
Be wary of the echo chamber.
Be wary of rose-tinted spectacles.
Or, A bunch of people getting on the same website(s) about the same subject over and over again, is hardly an accurate measure to go by.
Here's some sort of pretty accurate measure: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum...ddon-situation
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  #60  
Old 28 Oct 2013, 19:11
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Digital Jedi Digital Jedi is offline
 
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Originally Posted by craigvm View Post
i can post on there again now but funny how my posts was moderated and i could`nt start a new thread in the support forums after slagging vb off dont you think
No, not really. You never really said why you couldn't post.


Originally Posted by cellarius View Post
Be wary of rose-tinted spectacles.
  • Do your research.
  • Count your costs.
  • Also hold yourself accountable for your purchasing decisions.

I'm not really sure how "rose-colored" applies here.

Here's some sort of pretty accurate measure: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum...ddon-situation
Um, a thread is accurate measure?
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